Topic: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

While there is always a large amount of subjectivity involved, particularly in aesthetic preferences, I wonder what I am missing: Many folks rave (positively) about the Blüthner add-on, which I own and play happily enough. But I far, far prefer the D4, which has a sonic immediacy that better mimics the sound and feel of playing an actual grand.  Even extensively tweaked to my liking, there is a certain flatness or deadness to some ranges of the Blüthner keyboard when compared to the D4.  Perhaps I will happen upon a Blüthner preset that opens up new audio horizons and inspires greater affection, but for the moment nothing approaches the love I feel for my tweaked D4.

And speaking of tweaked pre-sets, I'm glad a lot of you have enjoyed the "Dynamic Jazz 3-mic" fxp, which is currently my go-to piano.  With my good studio headphones and closed eyes, I feel that I'm playing a grand piano that I could never afford, while sitting at my desktop studio.  :-)  Thank you Modartt!

I've tried to find a combination of settings that I like equally well for the Blüthner.  The "Dynamic Blüthner" is the best I've hit on so far and -- while I like it -- it's still a distant second place.  (And the demo MP3 is atrocious; I need to play and post something more polished.)

Also, while working with fxp modifications, I keep hitting on distracting audio artifacts on the Blüthner G right above middle C.  Has anyone else noticed a distracting abundance of overtones (if that is the right word) on that note?

Thanks to all for their contributions to this forum and the FXP Corner, which I enjoy a lot.

Last edited by duggadugdug (22-10-2013 23:58)

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

Hello DDD,

Please feel free to use whichever piano suits your playing style and touch.

I happen to enjoy using the Blüthner Concert Recording AB preset, but that's just me.  In reality, it doesn't matter which brand name of piano I happen to use; rather, I choose the one(s) that have the most playability for my own playing style and touch.

Some people enjoy the emulation of the piano as you sit at the bench, whereas I enjoy the sound of the piano as it is heard from sitting at the side of the instrument.  True, this isn't what one hears when playing the piano, but I still like the side perspective, just the same.

Other people may argue that one given piano preset sounds too dry, or too wet, or too ... whatever.  That's the beauty of being able to select from any number of instruments, and from within their vast array of presets -- and then to go in and make further adjustments to your own liking.

One of the faults I have found with the sampled piano libraries (EWQL and Synthogy) was that I had to basically be happy with whatever perspective the software manufacturer thought was in my best interest.  Two of the things that have bothered me were the tuning (or lack of tuning on a given note in a certain note-on velocity range, and good tuning at lesser and greater velocities for the same note!); the other problem I had to deal with was the sometimes highly differing sounds in the same note, when I would pass from, say, 85 and below note-on velocity, and then getting slammed when the note-on velocity for the same note was 86.

Enough of my rambling.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

Perhaps you concerns about the Blüthner it's just the own characteristics of such brand.

Even prime real pianos have considerable diferences from one brand to anothe,r that can interefear a lot in a particular taste.


What settings have you tried?

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

Good points, all, Joe.  I agree completely with your observations about the profound versatility of Pianoteq compared to sample-based instruments.  The continuous response across the full range of midi data is wonderful -- 128 "sample layers" beat 16 (or 4, or 1) any day!

Thinking about it, you are also correct in identifying bench vs. piano-side perspectives as being at the crux of my preference.  I suppose that I tend to prefer a preset with the sonic immediacy that one gets while sitting and playing an acoustic piano.  But yes, many of the other presets are remarkably good representations of what you'd get with a well mic-ed piano in a studio or a nice, ambient hall, and might be preferable for purposes of, for example, recording a classical piece.

@Beto: Yes, you are right -- it does largely depend on a preference for the sound "color" of one piano/brand over another.  I've tried all of the Blüthner presets, and have spent a fair amount of time tweaking the parameters.  It is a fine piano, just not my favorite.  While the slightly "buzzy" bass notes can be interesting and the treble notes are very vibrant, I find the mid-range to be "flatter" (in terms of complexity, not pitch) as compared to my favorite D4 FXP.  Because it really comes down to preference, my original topic ("What's wrong with me?") was intended as a joke.  Vive la différence!

And speaking of Blüthner parameter tweaking, one of the things I found that I liked (in the "Dynamic Blüthner" fxp) was adding a single, very quick (10 ms) mallet bounce.  While it's so close in time that it isn't perceptible as a separate impulse, it "fattens" the sound of the hammer strike.  While for some purposes it might decrease the tight precision of the sound, I like the punch that it adds.  You can toggle that parameter on and off and see what you think.

Last edited by duggadugdug (24-10-2013 15:00)

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

I like both, each has its own "personality" ...i find the D4 has a more delicate sound, whereas the Blüthner sounds more "majestic" in a certain way - though i wish it had more sustain in the higher notes.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

Duggadugdug,

I'm diggadigging your preset :-)

Enjoying the dynamic 3 mic for d4  a lot indeed. Next to the daily practice , its' the one I will use. Thanks and keep up the good work.


duggadugdug wrote:

While there is always a large amount of subjectivity involved, particularly in aesthetic preferences, I wonder what I am missing: Many folks rave (positively) about the Blüthner add-on, which I own and play happily enough. But I far, far prefer the D4, which has a sonic immediacy that better mimics the sound and feel of playing an actual grand.  Even extensively tweaked to my liking, there is a certain flatness or deadness to some ranges of the Blüthner keyboard when compared to the D4.  Perhaps I will happen upon a Blüthner preset that opens up new audio horizons and inspires greater affection, but for the moment nothing approaches the love I feel for my tweaked D4.

And speaking of tweaked pre-sets, I'm glad a lot of you have enjoyed the "Dynamic Jazz 3-mic" fxp, which is currently my go-to piano.  With my good studio headphones and closed eyes, I feel that I'm playing a grand piano that I could never afford, while sitting at my desktop studio.  :-)  Thank you Modartt!

I've tried to find a combination of settings that I like equally well for the Blüthner.  The "Dynamic Blüthner" is the best I've hit on so far and -- while I like it -- it's still a distant second place.  (And the demo MP3 is atrocious; I need to play and post something more polished.)

Also, while working with fxp modifications, I keep hitting on distracting audio artifacts on the Blüthner G right above middle C.  Has anyone else noticed a distracting abundance of overtones (if that is the right word) on that note?

Thanks to all for their contributions to this forum and the FXP Corner, which I enjoy a lot.

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

MGZ wrote:

Duggadugdug,

I'm diggadigging your preset :-)

Enjoying the dynamic 3 mic for d4  a lot indeed. Next to the daily practice , its' the one I will use. Thanks and keep up the good work.

You're very welcome, MGZ.  And thanks for the kind words.

Another FXP I like is "D4 Jazz Highly Percussive" by jprykiel

Re: What's wrong with me? (D4 vs. Blüthner musings)

duggadugdug wrote:

Another FXP I like is "D4 Jazz Highly Percussive" by jprykiel

Yes, it's really good and the audio demo is very so good, that's Jean-Philippe Rykiel marvelous keyboardist, we can have confidence. I think it's my new preset piano for the live performance now.