Topic by dingo

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Topic: McGurk Effect

I once had the experience of watching a movie on TV, seeing & hearing somebody playing a beautiful piano, and thinking, "How sad, I'll never be able to afford such a wonderful instrument." And then I pondered that the sound quality I was actually hearing must have been very poor, coming as it did from the 4" speakers built into a pretty unimpressive TV receiver. The system I have for pianoteq is far superior to a simple TV's audio, and yet - even if I play CDs through that system - I never get the thrill I had from watching somebody play the piano in a movie viewed on a TV set.
And then I remembered a phenomenon I had heard about as an undergraduate 30 years ago: The McGurk effect. This web page describes it well, including a stunning video: http://hypervocal.com/vids/2011/the-mcg...illusion/. Basically what we hear is significantly influenced by what we see. And the effect is substantial and not at all affected by knowing that the visual input is irrelevant or misleading.
I think the McGurk effect may contribute to lingering complaints that pianoteq is "metallic" or "electronic" sounding, "not woody enough," and other such comments in this forum.
Pianoteq needs to come packaged in a large wooden box that looks just like a piano before we will be able to hear it as a piano.
IMHO, the other factor that leads to a lot of complaints, particularly about bass sound, is that people do not use large enough amps and big enough speakers. A grand piano has an immense amount of power, especially in the bass strings.
Cheers,
Clive.

Last edited by dingo (11-02-2013 23:37)

Reply by doug

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Re: McGurk Effect

Yep. I apply very different standards to both my sound and my playing depending on whether I'm recording just audio or a video. On video, you can get away with a lot more.

Reply by tractor_music

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Re: McGurk Effect

I used to beat up on a colleague for listening to his stereo equipment instead of the music.
Listening for imperfections can be an obsession, better to hear the sound.
I find PTQ sounds to be pleasant enough in their own right.
Any two Steinways are different (enough) and I am incapable of choosing which would be best (for me).

Part of the musical experience of attending a live performance is that I am THERE with ALL my senses, not just my hearing.

At home when listening to a recording (of whoever) I often close my eyes to imagine the performer in the concert hall - this is probably related, I likely feel a need for the visual component, so I add it.

I don't find the McGurk effect at all surprising, we have our senses, they work in concert(pun), trying to separate them is what is "artificial".

On a like subject restaurant "dining" is very different from getting the same food in little plastic containers and scoffing it down in the car

Last edited by tractor_music (17-03-2013 02:48)

Reply by tractor_music

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Re: McGurk Effect

I just remembered this.
Whenever I hear a Horowitz recording and close my eyes I "see" flattened fingers

Reply by custral

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Re: McGurk Effect

Those amazing fingers - especially the fully-flat right 4th while the pinkie's tightly folded up on itself!

How on earth??

Reply by tractor_music

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Re: McGurk Effect

I also do it when I hear a recording of Segovia - except I close my eyes and "see" those pudgy fingers.
I went to see him a couple of times at Symphony hall in Boston, very pleased I did.
Although he was an old man by then and DID make some mistakes he was SUCH a musician that they could have as easily been the written score.
I used to be able to recognize a few guitars even on a crummy radio, Sharon Isbin's for example - and I am SURE that it was the instrument more than her playing that I recognized.

The mind's eye, etc. 
Maybe I am "seeing" the hands as the originators of the sound - and of course wondering why mine can't do better than those, heck I don't flatten my finger like Horowitz did why CAN'T I play better than he did ?