A2 and B3 keys do not rise quickly enough on release. I can't figure out why. I'm thinking of switching these with keys A1 and B1. Did you do something similar before? If so, how did you go about removing the keys and re-replacing them?
Update: I'm thinking that the metal 'return' bar under these keys needs lubrication (the part where this bar touches and rubs against the plastic key). I'm also wondering if the humidity could effect the effectiveness of this lubrication because sometimes the keys stick less than they do at other times. The humidity is the only thing I can think of that might cause this variability.
Something else: if I tilt the keybed up a bit (the end farthest away from the front) the keys stick less. I am not sure why.
Hi Mabry
Before attempting to remove the keys mentioned, try to determine the side of the key that is rubbing the most. Do this by using your index finger and thumb to grip the front if the key. Depress the key whilst moving to one side. Does it rub considerably? Depress the same key again, this time moving towards the opposite side. Does it move more freely this side? In this way you can determine which parts of the key are rubbing against a. The front key guide, b. the hammer butt. Once you have made a note of which side of the key(s) are rubbing, removed them taking note where they came from!
To remove the keys, use a flat screwdriver the same width as the pink anchor at the rear. Set the keybed up so that it faces you (playing position - fronts facing you). Insert the screwdriver into the slot and once in, press the pink in the slot towards you. As you do, pull the bottom of the back of the key upwards (you many need to wiggle the screwdriver slightly as you do so) and the key should come free.
Having removed the key (and noting where they were taken from, you will need to adjust the key so that it no longer rubs. WARNING: This is a delicate operation and less is definitely more when it comes to this adjustment so take it slow, bit by bit.
You may notice at the rear of some of the keys, little grove marks. What are they? Well, these are the very marks made when Fatar did their initial regulating of the keys. If a key rubbed, they would use something like piano wire cutters to 'move' the key over so that it no longer rubbed. Usually a rubbing key will not look straight from the front, rather if will probably be wonky (even if only slightly).
Let me know when you've got to this point and I'll attempt to instruct further Mabry,
Kindest Regards,
Chris
Update: I'm thinking that the metal 'return' bar under these keys needs lubrication (the part where this bar touches and rubs against the plastic key). I'm also wondering if the humidity could effect the effectiveness of this lubrication because sometimes the keys stick less than they do at other times. The humidity is the only thing I can think of that might cause this variability.
Something else: if I tilt the keybed up a bit (the end farthest away from the front) the keys stick less. I am not sure why.
The tilt twists the keybed and results in what you experience. Lower the same side and keys will rub more! That is why real piano actions have iron stays. This is also why Sind keyboard manufacturers use metal frames - an attempt to minimise this twisting.
And then it came to me in a flash! Like it did to Watson and Crick! More later!
The tilt twists the keybed and results in what you experience. Lower the same side and keys will rub more! That is why real piano actions have iron stays. This is also why Sind keyboard manufacturers use metal frames - an attempt to minimise this twisting.
Exactly! The twist gives you something like the helix shape that elated Watson and Crick. But that helix is driving me nuts. Just the slightest twist throws keys of out of wack but only one or two at a time. I am assuming the keybed on my Numa does not sit properly in the plastic bottom, resulting in a twist. I am placing thin 5 yen coins (Japanese money since I am in Tokyo) under various sections of the front part of the metal frame (where the keys attach) in order to correct the twisting. I can correct the original two bad keys but then a couple of other bad ones show up elsewhere. I'll have to keep experimenting.
I won't be removing or moving any keys around at this point. I don't think this is a lubrication issue anymore.
A2 and B3 keys do not rise quickly enough on release. I can't figure out why. I'm thinking of switching these with keys A1 and B1. Did you do something similar before? If so, how did you go about removing the keys and re-replacing them?
This is exactly what I had to do with one of my "A" keys in middle...I swapped it with a (basically) unused A in the highest register. While I had the keys out I looked closely at them and I believe it is a manufacturing defect. The key is slightly warped or hasn't been cut properly (the wood portion). I shaved it down a bit and it works better, but it is not perfect. I think more sanding was required though...I just wanted to get back to playing and not wood working! I also tried greasing the entire mechanism where there was any friction, but that is not the problem IMO.
This is exactly what I had to do with one of my "A" keys in middle...I swapped it with a (basically) unused A in the highest register. While I had the keys out I looked closely at them and I believe it is a manufacturing defect. The key is slightly warped or hasn't been cut properly (the wood portion). I shaved it down a bit and it works better, but it is not perfect. I think more sanding was required though...I just wanted to get back to playing and not wood working! I also tried greasing the entire mechanism where there was any friction, but that is not the problem IMO.
What surprises me is that I am able to raise ever so slightly one end of the keyboard (right or left) and that keeps just one or two keys at the opposite end of the keyboard from moving correctly. I like this keyboard when it is working but I can't figure out how this is a good design!
I guess I will need to take the malfunctioning keys off and see if I can fix them based on yours and Sigasa's instructions.
Thanks.
What surprises me is that I am able to raise ever so slightly one end of the keyboard (right or left) and that keeps just one or two keys at the opposite end of the keyboard from moving correctly.
You are most likely twisting the frame enough to change the spacing of the keys. The key is only off by a tiny amount, but it is enough to cause this problem. I haven't had any other problems though...just the "A" key.
I guess I will need to take the malfunctioning keys off and see if I can fix them based on yours and Sigasa's instructions.
This is not a simple procedure by the way, and you may want to consider taking it to a shop. If you typically perform your own repairs like this, then you should be prepared (tools, time, frustration, etc.), otherwise I would not recommend this as a do-it-yourself project.
The hardest part (to me) was releasing the tension for the spring that keeps the key in place, and then "hooking" it back in. That, and the case cover itself (with wiring) can make it a little nerve-racking.
[edit]
The problem did follow the key in case you were wondering.
mabry wrote:I guess I will need to take the malfunctioning keys off and see if I can fix them based on yours and Sigasa's instructions.
This is not a simple procedure by the way, and you may want to consider taking it to a shop. If you typically perform your own repairs like this, then you should be prepared (tools, time, frustration, etc.), otherwise I would not recommend this as a do-it-yourself procedure.
The hardest part (to me) was releasing the tension for the spring that keeps the key in place, and then "hooking" it back in. That, and the case cover itself (with wiring) can make it a little nerve-racking.
[edit]
The problem did follow the key in case you were wondering.
I would have to agree with John here and echo that it would probably be best for you to exercise caution and get it fixed by a professional keyboard repair shop. Besides, if it is just a couple of keys it shouldn't cost you too much Mabry. The worst thing would be to mess up a very good keybed! Mine is very worse for wear after all the adjusting, but I put it down to research and development!!!
Seriously though, don't DIY unless you have professional advice... Please.
Kindest Regards,
Chris
Seriously though, don't DIY unless you have professional advice... Please.
I "fixed" the problem with some minor DIY. I first concluded that the 3 sticking keys were occurring due to either a twisted key frame or instead, a twisted key frame in combination with a couple of malformed keys.
With the key frame removed from the keyboard box, I noticed that I could correct all three stickings by raising the rear left corner of the frame by half of an inch and the rear right corner by a quarter of an inch. Raising the left corner by the difference (a quarter of an inch) and leaving the right alone did not do the trick.
After screwing the key frame into the plastic bottom of the keyboard box, I was still able to correct the sticking keys by raising the left and right corners of the box by the above amounts. I then placed the plastic top of the keyboard into place and screwed it to the bottom box. Unfortunately, this held the key frame in place to such an extent that I was no longer able to correct the sticking keys by raising the bottom corners. Tightening these screws appears to prevent and twisting movement of the key frame. This is of course a good design if you have a properly formed key frame and keys.
So I simply untightened those screws, placed the keyboard on my keyboard stand, applied the proper raising to the left and right rear corners and now all keys are working correctly. So all is well, for now.
Bach WTC Book II C Major prelude, here I come.
mabry:
I know this is a lot to ask, but is there any chance you could make a video on YouTube on how to repair the sticky keys on Fatar Numa (Nero)? That would be lovely. I have about 6 sticking keys and I bet there are many others with the same situation. Or if anyone else could do it. Would help many.
To be more precise, one of my keys is stuck half way and feels very heavy. Couple are stuck in a bit too low position. One is stuck by touching the next key to the left (quite tilted). I have not played this instrument that much and there have not been any abnormal conditions, it has just been in a normal room, not moved at all. But still it has become almost useless because of the sticking keys.