Topic by Rohade

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  • Rohade
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Topic: I finally got a baby grand but need help from people used to acoustics

Hi, I finally could get a baby grand, an Erard and I love the sound of it, I think it was made about 1950 as it has Ivory tops but also overstrung, the sound is really good.

My problem is that having little experience with acoustic pianos I gotta adapt to the touch, my question is if it's normal to have two different touches on the keys, I mean, there is one kind of touch on the keys and almost at the end there is another different one, it feels, different. It's easy to realize it when playing piannissimo, I push the key very softly until certain point and then I gotta use another different strenght to keep going, being the last one harder, is that the escapement click or something, normal?.

Also, one key is wobbling and makes a clicking noise of the wood clashing against the other key, is a black key and it's annoying, beyond that, is on tune and works good, an expert already came and tune it and everything but that happened or I realized it, after he came, it's possible to fix that by myself?.

Also, pianoteq related, I notice I can do legato and have to be more careful with the sustain pedal on the acoustic, I used to stomp the sustain pedal more on Pianoteq, any tips to reproduce those conditions on pianoteq ?, and wow, I'd love to have an Erard sound on Pianoteq using the last engine.

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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  • jcfelice88keys
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Re: I finally got a baby grand but need help from people used to acoustics

Hello Rohade,

Congratulations on your acquiring a genuine Erard piano with ivory keytops, and thank you for notifying the Pianoteq community of your acquisition.


Regarding the action of your fine piano:
Knowing that your acoustic instrument is about 62 years old, it may be in your best interest to search for an experienced piano technician, one who is able to "polish the capstans" on your piano.  The capstans are basically the pivot point (or fulcrum) onto which your wooden keys sit.  When your action is serviced by a highly qualified technician, you will most likely find that the conditions you have cited will have been corrected.  In addition, your technician will be able to clean and lubricate (correctly) all of the interfaces between moving parts -- especially in the cleaning and regulating of the double escapement.  In other words, a good cleaning and regulation of your piano's action will make it feel as though it were 55 years younger!!

There is something else you may wish to be made known -- at first, you may find yourself using the sustain pedal too much while playing on your Erard.  You see, real grands have much, much more resonance that you could have imagined with sampled or modeled pianos!

Regarding how to play pianissimo on a grand piano:
Eventually you will learn to use your fingers to "pull the notes downward" to their lowermost positions.  This means that you must pull "through" the escapement mechanism.  If most of your recent playing life has been on digital keyboards, this is something you will need to learn how to do.  Of course, if the piano's action has been cleaned and correctly lubricated, this condition will be minimized for you in advance.

Best wishes to your prize acquisition!

If you need any help, there are plenty of people who are more than willing to help you.


Cheers,

Joe


P.S.  Regarding a good piano technician -- sometimes the best tuners are just that, namely, tuners.  You may still wish to search for a great piano technician, one who restores actions, rather than just a tuner.  Anyway, your piano is in tune as of this writing, so it is not wasted time in getting your instrument tuned without the same person performing the regulation.  [EDIT:  Insist on a certified piano technician to clean, lubricate and regulate your Erard's action.]

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (01-12-2012 06:19)

Reply by Rohade

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Re: I finally got a baby grand but need help from people used to acoustics

Thank you very much for the very informative and fast answer!

So that change in resistance near the keybed is normal but can be minimized, right?. It really got me by surprise at first as yes, I never had that on electronic keyboards, I was also googling and saw that some Roland models imitate that resistence near the keybed by emulating that effect of the escape mechanism, wierd enough, I now have more strenght when I play my electric keyboard maybe because of that and I'm getting a better sound when using Pianoteq, I use both acoustic and electronic Piano at this moment.

I bought the Erard from the same people who made the maintenance, in fact it had some stuck keys at first, double strike keys, uneven action, a pedal wasn't working and tune was bright in some keys and other details that he fixed when he did the first tune and calibration, however now is when I'm realizing of the escape mechanism resistance and still I guess there are some fixes to make but so far so good. They have like 50 years doing that that's why I trusted them when I bought the acoustic.

Regarding the sustain, what paremeter should I change in Pianoteq or to make  the note longer?, like resonating for 30 seconds, I now find samples kind of thin and definitively Pianoteq is more closer to an acoustic on everything, just need to get that resonance and I can start working on getting my bad habits behind.

Another difference that surprised me, is that it's harder to sound clean and even on piannissimo on a grand but I'm getting used to it. Is there another electronic keyboard that reproduce that change in resistance near the keybed of the grands? mine's a Yamaha GH3.

Thanks again for your answer and your time!

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: I finally got a baby grand but need help from people used to acoustics

Many old grand pianos need a balance of the keys, complete regulation of the action, cleaning, change of pieces.
Some old models can need even a complete replacement of the action itself, if the wood get warped or something like that.

Half sustein can be very dificult in real grand pianos.  Many digital pianos have a easy half sustein, but it's not a often characteristic in real wold pianos.

Reply by Jake Johnson

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  • Jake Johnson
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Re: I finally got a baby grand but need help from people used to acoustics

Can you post some mp3's of music or for that matter problematic notes played on your Erard in the "Other files" area? I'm not sure that I've heard many recordings of an Erard.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (04-12-2012 06:15)