Topic by S80

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Topic: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Hello
I am willing to explore Pianoteq but still am at the entry door.
I bought a Focusrite sound card today through which I have connected a Yamaha S80 to my laptop.
I have owned and liked that keyboard for nearly a decade.
I plan to buy something more realistic in terms of key reactivity later but would like to use it for the Pianoteq experimentation.
I have installed the trial version and the sound card has been recognised.
Unfortunately this does not seem to be enough.
In the tutorial it is said "to disable the internal sound of the synthesizer" to produce the Pianoteq sound.
Good enough but how to do this on the S80?
I have not found any such instruction from the Yamaha S80 manual.
Anyone who had to do this?
More generally, is there a "generic (and easy) way" to do this on other digital pianos?
I shall later try Pianoteq on different keyboards in resellers showroom, will they allow me to change this kind of parameter?
Thanks for any help.

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but all you have to do is turn the volume all the way down on the S80. There are often other ways to disable the sound on some synths, but this is what everyone I know does. (Yes, when I was first learning synths, someone had to show me this, too.)

Reply by S80

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Thank you for this and sorry for the level of the question.
I thought it was a matter of conflicts of sound sources, not just a matter of volume.
I have another one for you that, I am afraid, is not much more sophisticated but I prefer to sound stupid than not getting any sound from my S80, now effectively silent...
On the S80 there are 3 MIDI possible connections, In, Out and Through.
On the diagram posted on Pianoteq for connectivity with an external sound card, it shows that the key board has to be linked to both the laptop and the external sound card (Scarlett 8i6 in this instance).
I have connected the keyboard to the laptop using a MIDI to USB cable.
For this I have used the In and Out MIDI plugs from the keyboard.
This leaves only the Through plug to link the keyboard to the sound card, so I used a MIDI to MIDI cable to go from Through (keyboard), to the In plug of the sound card.
After this I still do not get any sound from the keys.
In the Pianoteq software the sound card is recognised and produces the sound (test), but the keyboard is not.
So my double question is, should the keyboard be listed has device?, am I messing with the connectivity?
I'll hug each and every tree in Atlanta if you solve my problem (and I know that they are some...)

Reply by sebion

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

You don't need the extra MIDI to USB Cable, since your external sound card has an integrated usb-midi interface. The MIDI THRU connector is only there to output the midi data received at midi in without changing anything, so don't use it you won't need it. You have to connect the midi out connector of your midi keyboard with the midi in connector of your soundcard. Your soundcard should appear in pianoteq's midi dialog above the sound cards. If it does not you may have to install a driver.

DIY digital piano on salvaged piano action with homemade optical sensor bar: http://sebion.wordpress.com

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Reply by S80

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

No there yet.
I have followed the suggested advice:
1/ I have turned down the volume of the S80 to zero,
2/ I have modified the connections. Now the S80 is connected to the sound card, from Midi Out (keyboard) to Midi In (sound card). The sound card is connected to my laptop (Midi - USB). No other connections (except a headphone in the soundcard).
3/ The sound card is registered in the Active Midi Input dialog box (in the Device window) and I get the sound when I do Test.
But still nothing from Yamaha (and I am still within the 20 minutes time limit for the trial version).
Any new idea anyone?

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Does your Yamaha require that you turn on Midi out? (I used to have an S80, and I seem to recall that there was a setting for Midi out. Might be a single button, but more probably, it's buried in the midi settings.)

Reply by sebion

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

I recommend you to look here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/arc...28461.html
They say there is an additional switch on the yamaha that can be set to midi/mac/pc. Maybe this one is set wrong. Otherwise there could be an other midi config problem with the keyboard like Jake already pointed out.

DIY digital piano on salvaged piano action with homemade optical sensor bar: http://sebion.wordpress.com

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Reply by S80

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Thank you, both of you.
In a plug and play world I thought it would be a much easier process...for a trial version.
I mean Yamaha and Midi, I am not talking about Amstrad/Minitel computers (some will understand).
I think I'll take my laptop, external (heavy) sound card, cables to a keyboard reseller store, just to check if Pianoteq is working.
I wonder how many potential clients they have lost simply for configuration issues...
(disclaimer: I work in the software industry, and I regularly complain against the complacency of software engineers and their lack of understanding on simplicity in usability).
I may simply go back to my Bosendorfer and continue to annoy the neighbours.
Sorry for the trees in Atlanta, I shall miss them too...

Reply by sebion

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

I hope not too meny customers pianoteq itself is pretty straight forward regarding its configuration. You really should give it a try in a store.

Last edited by sebion (10-09-2012 22:03)
DIY digital piano on salvaged piano action with homemade optical sensor bar: http://sebion.wordpress.com

sebion's Website

Reply by olepro

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

S80 wrote:

I wonder how many potential clients they have lost simply for configuration issues...
(disclaimer: I work in the software industry, and I regularly complain against the complacency of software

I don't think they have lost any on this regard
All stand alone programs like Pianoteq need a configuration of two (2) things the first time you start the program.
You need to set your audio driver and your midi driver and thats it.
How you get sound in the rest of your system and where to plug in cables is not the responsibility of Pianoteq.

It should be straight forward if you read the manual page 11-12

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Reply by mabry

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

olepro wrote:

You need to set your audio driver and your midi driver and thats it.
How you get sound in the rest of your system and where to plug in cables is not the responsibility of Pianoteq.
It should be straight forward if you read the manual page 11-12

Using the above quote as a starting point in responding to the original poster: one thing that can sometimes throw a wrench into all this is if you have been running a lot of virtual instruments or other software that each access your audio drivers/sound cards/etc; conflicts can arise where one piece of software doesn't want to let go and so the next one can't access the drivers. I sometimes have an issue like this with Pianoteq and find that I can fix it by restarting Pianoteq a second time. The other alternative is to reboot and run Pianoteq first. Of course, neither of these two situations is the fault of Pianoteq, but only the Windows operating system.

Reply by S80

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Thank you every one.
As planned, I went to several music instrument resellers today to do live tests.
The various instruments I tried have been recognised by Pianoteq immediately, either through a direct connection to the laptop, or through my external sound card (recommanded way to connect the KB by the musician/shop assistant).
Conclusion, as the link provided by Sebion inferred, there must be some weird hidden parameter that needs to be changed in the Yamaha S80 configuration for it to be recognised.
This will only accelerate my decision to upgrade to a new keyboard.
I browsed through Casio, Kawai, Roland and Yamaha.
When it comes to Pianoteq itself, I thought it was good but not amazing, especially in the mid-range.
It is above most of the samples I tried, but with Yamaha NU1 and Avant Grand...hum.
I shall buy the software but as much for the fun of twicking the sounds than for the D4 modelling.
For the next KB, my heart is beating faster for the NUI with his very realistic key reactivity.
I did some research on the Internet to get reviews, mostly favourable but sometimes mixed, and in a very extensive one, covering Yamaha in general, I read something surprising referring to Pianoteq and equivalent software.
It seems that Yamaha has slightly weakened the quality of the output audia signal of some KB (the article mentions the N1) in order to reduce the quality of the sound that can be produced by external sound modelling software.
Has anyone heard something on the subject?

From a piano sound perspective I personally rate Bosendorfer as high as Steinway, for different reasons but equal pleasure.
Has anyone created a "Bosendorfer like" set of parameters using Pianoteq?
I would love to try this too.

Reply by custral

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

In FXP Corner, Kysinc posted a "D4_Bosendorfer_challenge.fxp", along with remarks including it wasn't perfect. Maybe doing a Search on 'Kysinc' would turn up posts discussing it, though it could be a standalone, orphaned so to speak. But if so, trying the fxp yourself, with notice to the tweakings Kysinc applied, would give you a basis for agreeing or disagreeing when you take to your own "fun" with that challenge.

AFTERTHOUGHT: very soon after trying it myself, I jumped at its Reverb button, turned it Off. Immediate effect was it 'normalised' *to my hearing* quite a lot, meaning lost its bass oomph. My own experience of that instrument is entirely from hearing Arturo Michelangeli Bennedetti play one, where bass oomph was NOTG.

This indicates that one of the tweaks, not straightout visible, could hide in the Effects' reverb settings and be a biggie.

Last edited by custral (12-09-2012 07:25)

Reply by rndmdnight

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

sebion wrote:

I recommend you to look here: http://acapella.harmony-central.com/arc...28461.html
They say there is an additional switch on the yamaha that can be set to midi/mac/pc. Maybe this one is set wrong. Otherwise there could be an other midi config problem with the keyboard like Jake already pointed out.

I own a S80, and when the S80 has been moved or handled it usually ends up in one of the wrong position.

hallstein

Reply by S80

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

Sebion was effectively on the right track.
After digging into old forums and downloading the full manual, I have found the right set-up.

If there is another lonely soul still playing this rarity and with the same problem here is the answer.
1/ Switch to Midi the very small button on the back
2/ Push the "Utility" button
3/ Use the "Shift" and "Page" buttons simultaneously to navigate through the small screen
4/ Go to "Midi Ch\ Sys"
5/ With the front knob 1 select Channel 1, and switch "Local" to off.
There you are.
End of the story.

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Help to disable internal sound of a Yamaha S80

The S80 was my first synth. Faced with the usual complexities of a synth and its idiosyncratic interface, I never really mastered it. However, at times I regret having sold it. I could never get a really good piano sound because even the soft samples were hard strikes, and I never bought the piano card, and I was struggling with understanding parameters and modulations. On the other hand, the hard strikes were good and organs were good. Liked the action, too.

In any case, I'm glad you found your way through. Remember that you don't, if I recall correctly, have to switch Local to Off. Just turning the volume all the way down accomplishes the same thing.