Topic: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

Hello :-)

I'm currently evaluating Pianoteq - and is very impressed from my first trials ...

There is, however, one issue that I don't know how to address: From time to time - maybe with 5 minutes intervals, notes spontaneously appear from my computer. These single notes are high volume and continue for a long time. And I can't see a pattern in when and how they appear.

I use windows 7 professional on a Sony Vaio laptop with 192 KHz sample frequency. My keyboard is a "vintage" (1986) Korg DP-2000 - which normally works flawlessly - and I use an M-audio midisport UNO between the keyboard and computer. I use the ASIO4ALL "driver".

Hope somebody here knows what may be amiss ...

Greetings,

Jesper

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

I had problems with a midi sport UNO.

Try an E-MU X-midi 1X1. I had no problems with that.

Regards,

Chris

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

Hi Chris,

Thanks for replying. I'll try to borrow another midi unit to see if that changes what happens.

Best regards,

Jesper

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

When you get the spontaneous notes look at the options->midi window to see there are midi events coming in to trigger Pianoteq.  Perhaps something in your system is sending random midi messages.  Also you could disconnect the midi inputs to Pianoteq which would isolate whether Pianoteq is spontaneously making noise, or whether it is just responding to random midi input.

By the way I thinking running at 192kHz is pointless.  There is no audio difference from 44.1kHz (for humans, anyway).  But if you've got the CPU and diskspace, why not?

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

I've had similar problems with my piano. I've never been able to determine if it's the piano sending the spurious note-on messages from a mechanical glitch or a firmware glitch, or if it's a MIDI driver glitch or what..

I ended up using MidiPipe on my Mac and set up a note filter to block velocity 127 note-on messages, since I never play at 100% maximum velocity. That seems to have worked for the most part, but I still get strange things once in a long while. Either a still loud note that I didn't play, or what I suspect is an incorrect velocity of a note  that I did play... Very strange.

I've had no luck tracing the MIDI messages, because it seems to happen when I'm using the sustain pedal, which fires hundreds of extra MIDI messages in the log window. Not sure if it's connected to the pedal messages, but I've never been able to go to the log right after an extra note and see it. The spontaneous note has been on the middle-E, which really makes me theorize that the control message 64 (sustain pedal) is somehow getting translated into a note-on 64 (E4, or middle E). According to the MIDI message table, there's only one bit difference between a controller change message and a note-on message, but what could be causing this bit to flip? I guess it could be random bits flipping, but then you'd think that the piano would be randomly sending incorrect notes or notes at random velocities instead of just E4 at velocity 127.

It always scares the crap out of me and I usually rage quit for a while.

Last edited by JerryKnight (26-10-2011 19:59)

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

Hello Jerry & Varpa,

Thank you also for sharing your observations and ideas. I decided to buy another midi interface - a midimate II it's called - and since connecting this interface I have only once experienced what - might - have been a note that was not keyed by me. So I'm satisfied now and look forward to playing....

Somewhat surprising though that what in my perspective is an age-old standard doesn't just work flawlessly ....

Best regards from Denmark,

Jesper

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

evalon wrote:

Hello Jerry & Varpa,

Thank you also for sharing your observations and ideas. I decided to buy another midi interface - a midimate II it's called - and since connecting this interface I have only once experienced what - might - have been a note that was not keyed by me. So I'm satisfied now and look forward to playing....

Somewhat surprising though that what in my perspective is an age-old standard doesn't just work flawlessly ....

Best regards from Denmark,

Jesper

Good to hear,

all the best,

Regards,

Chris

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

I've had this happen a few times, but very rarely. I'm using the midi ports from my audio interface (Lexicon Omega). I also have a M-audio midi sport uno I could try, but I see that causes problems as well. It happens so rarely that I don't really do anything about it, but...

JerryKnight wrote:

It always scares the crap out of me and I usually rage quit for a while.

Precisely my reaction as well.

Windows 10 1511 | Intel Core i5 4690K 3.5GHz | 16GB RAM
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 | JBL LSR305
Casio Privia PX-150 | M-Audio Oxygen 49 (Gen 3)
Pianoteq Standard 5.5.1 | D4, K2, U4, KIViR, Bells

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

I am getting a random brutally loud middle E with reasonable frequency. It seems there are some suggestions on how to solve the problem, but nothing definite.  The posts are old, however.  Has this problem since been solved?

Last edited by rfhanover (02-12-2024 22:42)

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

In the past, there have been issues with keyboards putting out high velocity information when the key wasn't pressed that hard due to some kind of sensor error. I can't say specific models, have only read about it on a couple of forums.

Just throwing that out as a possibility that some have run into. Good luck!

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

rfhanover wrote:
Bellyman wrote:

In the past, there have been issues with keyboards putting out high velocity information when the key wasn't pressed that hard due to some kind of sensor error. I can't say specific models, have only read about it on a couple of forums.

Just throwing that out as a possibility that some have run into. Good luck!

Thanks!  I don't think I'm playing the note that is sounding.  I think it is the same situation that Jerry was talking about above.  It seems to happen when I'm pedaling. 

I've tried different cables. Same problem.  I don't think it's my audio interface.  I've gone from the interface into my computer usb and also directly from my keyboard into the computer usb with a dedicated midi cable.  Same thing.  I'm at my wit's end trying to figure out what to try next.

I should also add that I don't have this problem when I use the internal sounds on keyboard (no computer involved).  That makes me think it's not a keyboard issue.

I love using pianoteq.  I don't love being frightened half to death when that random note comes from nowhere.

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

Pianoteq renders a midi stream in real time but it also records the stream, which can be saved as a midi file. If this file is played back on another midi player and the loud note is heard this would pretty much clear the fault being with Pianoteq (at least with its rendering engine).

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

levinite wrote:

Pianoteq renders a midi stream in real time but it also records the stream, which can be saved as a midi file. If this file is played back on another midi player and the loud note is heard this would pretty much clear the fault being with Pianoteq (at least with its rendering engine).

Thanks!  I neglected to say that I don't think it's a rendering problem.  I see the midi note on message for the errant note in the saved midi.

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

Does the E sound occur only in Pianoteq or also on the digital piano itself? If it only happens in Pianoteq, and you are using the MIDI DIN5 connector, it might be due to a faulty cable. I don't know exactly why, but I used to get random notes from my Kawai MP11 when using the DIN5 MIDI output with an ESI MIDIMATE II MIDI-to-USB cable. The problem disappeared when I switched to the USB to host connection. Now I'm using the DIN5 MIDI output again but with an external USB sound card, and the problem has not repeated. By the way, the MIDI-to-USB cable works perfectly on my other digital piano, a Kawai CL35.
Hope it helps,
Marcos

Re: Spontaneous notes when using Pianoteq ...

marcos daniel wrote:

Does the E sound occur only in Pianoteq or also on the digital piano itself? If it only happens in Pianoteq, and you are using the MIDI DIN5 connector, it might be due to a faulty cable. I don't know exactly why, but I used to get random notes from my Kawai MP11 when using the DIN5 MIDI output with an ESI MIDIMATE II MIDI-to-USB cable. The problem disappeared when I switched to the USB to host connection. Now I'm using the DIN5 MIDI output again but with an external USB sound card, and the problem has not repeated. By the way, the MIDI-to-USB cable works perfectly on my other digital piano, a Kawai CL35.
Hope it helps,
Marcos

Thanks!  I am in the process now of switching out all my connections.  I think I've done enough troubleshooting to rule out the piano.