Topic: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

Hi - did any of you try the Atom D525 which replaced the 330? Is it suffering from the same limitations? (sorry if it's been already debatted, could not find through the search function).

I am looking to build/buy from scratch a PTQ solution to upgrade the sound of my Yamaha GT1, which as been the same for 13 years (I imagine we do better now!), and would love a fan-less (noise less) mini PC.

My hardware budget is around 600 Euros (half mini PC, half sound card).

From what I read the internal vs USB sound cards brings less latency vs less noise.
Is this a critical choice for a piano player?

Would you recommend the Terratec DMX 6 Fire USB or others?
http://www.terratec.net/en/products/DMX..._2084.html ?

Thanks a lot for your ideas, looking forward to be part of the PTQ family!

Arnaud

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

I would not suggest an Atom CPU for Pianoteq, at all. Any of them.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

I don't know the sound-card in question, but having checked out your link I noticed two things:

1. It's minimum CPU requirements are listed as "2,0 GHz Intel or AMD CPU" which is more than the 1.8Ghz of the Atom D525.  And the latter's clock speed is not a reflection of its real speed, for which see it's relative position here compared to other chips with slower clock speeds but faster in practice: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup....40+1.80GHz

2. USB will give latency, especially if you have any other USB devices connected (e.g. mouse, keyboard, external hard-drive, memory stick).  You are therefore better, I think, getting either a PCI internal soundcard or an external firewire card.  I know nothing about the former, but if firewire connectivity is an option, then the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 is only a little more expensive, has a comparable spec (in fact a little better) and I can vouch for it as professional build quality.  (See: http://www.focusrite.com/products/audio...e_pro_24/)

If you do find an (affordable!) solution to silencing the CPU fan, let me know--it bothers me too!

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

I have just bought the fanless Shuttle XS35GTV2 with Intel Atom D525 CPU and I am just testing Pianoteq on it. I managed to get polyphony of 48-64 at 44.1kHz sample rate nearly(!) without overloads with a buffer of 128 samples. I am just testing the integrated sound card, no external USB, and direct access through Linux ALSA, no JACK yet.

Lowering the sampling rate allows for higher polyphony without any overloading problems at all. Setting the buffer up to 256 samples also allows for a polyphony of up to 96-128 with only minor possibility of overload (with this and the previous "nearly" I mean that you really have to push down sustain pedal and drive across the keyboard wildly up and down to get a few short red overloads on the graph - when turning off the overload protection, I seldom hear a problem in the sound-fuss anyway).

I can report more after testing my external USB master keyboard with built-in sound-card of better quality, and eventually JACK as well.

Last edited by wanthalf (06-09-2011 18:34)

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

cool! Let us know more, it's very interesting. BTW, USB (2.0, not 1.1 of course) is equal to Firewire regarding latency, it's only a question of drivers. You can get very good results with most Tascam interfaces, the US 144 MK2 for example. I don't know if they have drivers for Linux however...

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

Well, I was a bit too optimistic when believing that I won't get x-runs (overload glitches) in real life. But just playing the non-dramatic demo song "K1 Blues" makes a few glitches with those settings. So lowering the parameters further will be necessary if you really want to get a perfect clean sound. The sample frequency is the best help, but that is exactly what I wanted to keep at 44.1kHz.

Another complaint goes to the Shuttle. It is fanless, but you really have to let it stand vertically in open air flow on all sides - you cannot just "hide" it somewhere nor even put lying down on a shelf or table. It already heats at almost 70°C (inside temp., not outside!) even when idle and standing. So, maybe, another solution with a small and quiet but active cooler would be more practical. E.g. the Mac Mini is actually even more compact(!), the fan is told to be completely quiet, it only needs to "breath" some air on the backside, and it has a full Intel iCore processor (full power!) and in the basic setup it isn't so much more expensive either.

Last edited by wanthalf (07-09-2011 08:49)

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

I'm wondering if wanthalf or another forum member has tested the Atom D525 CPU with an external USB sound card?  If so, I'd certainly like to hear how it performed.

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

Hi again. I do not think an external sound card would make much difference. Ok, it could take a bit of the CPU power for managing the USB port, possibly...

Anyway, today, I have done some experiments with an Intel Atom D2800 (BTW: the Intel DN2800MT board is really a nice piece of hardware!) and an external USB-to-SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity V-Link 192). It seems to be significantly better than D525 (D2800 is dual core, at least). But when really making the effort (beating all the lowest bass keys like crazy, with a sustain pedal pushed), I can still get the CPU overloaded even with the default rate of 29400 and relatively low polyphony. (Well, concerning "such effort": I have never actually made "such effort" with any powerful computer yet, so maybe... ;-))

I think it would need some skillful player to try it with some *real* (though complex) music. Considering any normal usage, I think it actually may be very well usable even at 44100 and some reasonable polyphony.

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

Thanks wanthalf.  Since my last post to this thread I have installed Pianoteq on an Atom N2800 netbook.  After some adjustments, I've managed to get 32kHz internal sampling rate and 48 polyphony without any crackles at all.  I've posted what I've learned under "Tips for Windows netbook users".

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

One more note: I actually tried the same "bass-beating" test on an MacBook Pro 2010 (Core i5 M540 @ 2.53GHz) and the result was not any better: overloaded within a second :-) So, I guess the Atom D2xxx is not bad at all.

(Well, ok, the polyphony was set at 256 ;-))

Last edited by wanthalf (06-10-2012 19:43)

Re: Atom D525 mini-PC project, looking for tips

Some more meaningful numbers. This time another "stupid" test: set polyphony to "Auto (optimistic)", NO use of a MIDI controller, just the PTQ interface: click sustain pedal down and strike the virtual keyboard up and down with the mouse. These are the results:

Atom N2800 @ 1.83GHz with PTQ internal samplerate at:
24kHz: polyphony tops over 60, settels between 20 and 50 (a safe and robust setting)
32kHz: polyphony tops over 30, settels between 8 and 18 (seems to be quite stable and robust too)
48kHz: polyphony well under 20 (otherwise overload), settles between 2 and 7 (unsafe setting)
(performace index shown: 14)

For comparison, the before mentioned MacBook Pro (early 2010) with Intel Core i5 M540 @2.53GHz:
48kHz: polyphony reaches well over 200, settles at 150-200
(performance index shown: 49)

Tested with the "D4 Classical BA" preset. Other presets may give slightly better results.