Topic by Zeng Hua

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Topic: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

Hello everyone,

I just noticed something that I can’t find any reason for: The MIDI demo files by Modartt sound way better than my own MIDI files. I absolutely love the demo file for the Bechstein DG Warm preset but I can hardly stand the sound of my own recording of Chopin Op 69 No 2. And yes, the pitch of the melody in the Chopin piece is higher than in the demo file but I don’t think that this is the reason for the lower sound quality. I’m sure that it’s not about my playing either but the pianos themselves seem to sound different, no matter if a note is played with a high or low velocity. Would it be possible that my stage piano sends MIDI data that make the files different from those by Modartt? I use a Kawai MP10 which I connect to my iPhone via a powered USB hub. No interface involved. Any help is highly appreciated.

Reply by Hansz

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

Did your keys velocity is ok? When in the midi view, have you 127 when you hit hard the key and near 0 when you slowly touch the key?
Maybe it's a bad setting of yout keyboard or a bad velocity curve?
For example, I have an old Yamaha DX7 and it can't send a note harder than 100, so it's never FF without tweaking the velocity curve.

Reply by Zeng Hua

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

Hansz wrote:

Did your keys velocity is ok? When in the midi view, have you 127 when you hit hard the key and near 0 when you slowly touch the key?
Maybe it's a bad setting of yout keyboard or a bad velocity curve?
For example, I have an old Yamaha DX7 and it can't send a note harder than 100, so it's never FF without tweaking the velocity curve.

I think this might be the case but something that I don’t understand is that even if I don’t play with the highest possible velocity some of the notes already start to sound rather harsh. It probably has nothing to do with the hammer hardness either because in the demo track the velocity is sometimes even higher and it doesn’t sound harsh at all. Nevertheless I will try to experiment with the velocity curve. Something I did notice about the demo file is that the variation in velocity is much higher than in my MIDI files. I might have to pay more attention to the very fine details of my playing because Pianoteq would react with more sensitivity then but I think it’s definitely worth trying. I will experiment with that tomorrow because it’s almost midnight here. Without changing the velocity curve it feels kind of similar to my acoustic upright. Anyway, I’ll try to make some adjustments to the velocity curve tomorrow and then I’ll see how it works. Thanks!

Reply by Zeng Hua

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

Zeng Hua wrote:
Hansz wrote:

Did your keys velocity is ok? When in the midi view, have you 127 when you hit hard the key and near 0 when you slowly touch the key?
Maybe it's a bad setting of yout keyboard or a bad velocity curve?
For example, I have an old Yamaha DX7 and it can't send a note harder than 100, so it's never FF without tweaking the velocity curve.

I think this might be the case but something that I don’t understand is that even if I don’t play with the highest possible velocity some of the notes already start to sound rather harsh. It probably has nothing to do with the hammer hardness either because in the demo track the velocity is sometimes even higher and it doesn’t sound harsh at all. Nevertheless I will try to experiment with the velocity curve. Something I did notice about the demo file is that the variation in velocity is much higher than in my MIDI files. I might have to pay more attention to the very fine details of my playing because Pianoteq would react with more sensitivity then but I think it’s definitely worth trying. I will experiment with that tomorrow because it’s almost midnight here. Without changing the velocity curve it feels kind of similar to my acoustic upright. Anyway, I’ll try to make some adjustments to the velocity curve tomorrow and then I’ll see how it works. Thanks!

Changing the velocity curve didn’t work for me. However, I did find a preset now that I also like for my own recordings: The Bechstein DG Prelude. Thanks again for your help!

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

The response of Pianoteq varies a lot depending on the keyboard and as correctly pointed out also depending on the velocity curve selected, that's why it's always best to do a couple of times the calibration process in Pianoteq which allows you to create a personal preset for your keyboard and for the style you're playing even if it is just for having an idea of what it should look like depending on the response.
Another thing that is crucial but often overlooked is the Dynamics slider which acts as a sort of natural compressor increasing or decreasing the db range between pp and ff. Whenever I wasn't able to actually craft a preset with velocity curves or calibration, using the slider has always "fixed" the problem somehow. It's worth giving it a try imho.

Last edited by Chopin87 (Yesterday 14:22)
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by bernard

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

"Un autre élément crucial, mais souvent négligé, est le curseur de dynamique, qui agit comme un compresseur naturel, augmentant ou diminuant la plage de décibels entre pp et ff"

je me permets de rebondir sur cette remarque qui me semble assez importante quant aux réglages ayant trait à la dynamique, en général, d'origine, le réglage est sur 40db,
certains d'entre vous utilisent-ils des réglages plus étendus?

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

bernard wrote:

"Un autre élément crucial, mais souvent négligé, est le curseur de dynamique, qui agit comme un compresseur naturel, augmentant ou diminuant la plage de décibels entre pp et ff"

je me permets de rebondir sur cette remarque qui me semble assez importante quant aux réglages ayant trait à la dynamique, en général, d'origine, le réglage est sur 40db,
certains d'entre vous utilisent-ils des réglages plus étendus?

Yes, for certain pieces I usually raise the level beyond the default values. Or if I want more control over the lower dynamics.

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Reply by Pboy

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Re: Preset demos sound way better than my own MIDI files

I have the same issue not only with the Pianoteq demos - especially the showcase recordings on modartt.com, but also with the inbuild demo songs of my digital piano.

Perhaps one has to be a really, really good pianist to achieve comparable results?

Be it as it may, regarding Pianoteq, imho it would help a lot if each recording setup and the preset parameters were laid open.
Or if the corresponding fxp-files would be made available (i don't mean the inbuild mini recordings of the presets).

Your thoughts?

Music was my first love. And it will be my last. Music of the future. And music of the past (John Miles)