Topic: Syngular

Well, I didn't see that coming

Thoughts?

Re: Syngular

daniel_r328 wrote:

Well, I didn't see that coming

Thoughts?

Forcing the piano editing interface on a synth is hopefully a temporary thing.

Re: Syngular

daniel_r328 wrote:

Well, I didn't see that coming

Thoughts?

Rather spend time and resources making the pianos more realistic. If I want otherworldly sounds, I'll use Omnisphere or similar

Re: Syngular

Love Syngular. Instant buy. The interface reconfiguration for the Syngular instrument is very efficient for the purpose of sound design.

The randomization feature (the icon of the throwing die in upper area) has been available for some time to quickly create odd, unusual and sometimes beautiful or compelling sounds, or as a starting point for creating a custom sound. Regarding the A-D-R (attack, decay, release) visible in the design panel of the Syngular interface, for all instruments (I think) these features have been available in various locations (the attack envelope has been available in the Note Effects panel, the decay has been available by adjusting the soundboard impedance and direct sound duration, and the release by adjusting Action-->Damping duration.

But it's very nice to have the Attack, Decay and Release available in the Design pane of the Syngular instrument for easy, efficient editing of sounds, especially when creating layered custom presets, as well as the Harmonicity control (available and adjustable for piano models as the String Length parameter) and the LFO parameters (also available in Note Effects as modulation rate (speed), pitch variation (vibrato) and amplitude (volume) variation (tremolo).

Also nice to have the several basic waveform shapes (sine, saw, square and triangle) that have been used since Robert Moog, Wendy Carlos and others created and/or popularized electronic audio synthesizers after precursors such as the theremin, available as Syngular presets, as starting points for creating interesting single or layered sounds.

In addition, it's great to have a synthesizer that can take advantage of the myriad adjustable parameters of the Pianoteq engine, and the layering and morphing, etc. And does anyone know of another virtual synth that allows one to edit the various sound-shaping or sound-influencing parameters on a note-by-note basis (like Pianoteq Pro's Note Edit functionality)?

It's great to see the Pianoteq engine made available for and applied to the field of general audio synthesis and sound design.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (10-12-2025 18:45)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Irmin wrote:
daniel_r328 wrote:

Well, I didn't see that coming

Thoughts?

Rather spend time and resources making the pianos more realistic. If I want otherworldly sounds, I'll use Omnisphere or similar

The new warm presets are nice and this Syngular is interesting. I remember some nice synth sounds done by Qexl with Pianoteq, a few years ago.

Re: Syngular

this is great news.

i has suggested something like this here months ago, but this is way beyond what i expected.

Re: Syngular

Pianoteq older versions are not supported for this? Only with 9.1? Because juxtaposing this with "Already own Pianoteq (9.1 or higher)? Buy this separately as an add-on." or "Download the latest update 9.1 or the latest trial version to explore a vast soundscape that will blow your mind!" (from an e-mail) gives me vibes that it only works with 9.1. But 100% I am wrong here, right?

Re: Syngular

thimgrim wrote:

Pianoteq older versions are not supported for this? Only with 9.1? Because juxtaposing this with "Already own Pianoteq (9.1 or higher)? Buy this separately as an add-on." or "Download the latest update 9.1 or the latest trial version to explore a vast soundscape that will blow your mind!" (from an e-mail) gives me vibes that it only works with 9.1. But 100% I am wrong here, right?

At least since I’ve been around (I think that was 6?) it’s always been that way. New instrument models are introduced in a particular version. From that point on you can try them or buy them, but they’ve never been “backported” to older versions. The instruments are built into the software, which lets you try them; buying an instrument just fully enables it.

The only exceptions I can recall are the free instruments in the KIViR pack.¹ When they are upgraded, the upgrade has to be installed independently of the supporting main version. So something about them works differently.

---

Edit to add/correct:

¹ KIVir and Bells and Carillons

Last edited by Coises (10-12-2025 19:39)

Re: Syngular

thimgrim wrote:

Pianoteq older versions are not supported for this? Only with 9.1? Because juxtaposing this with "Already own Pianoteq (9.1 or higher)? Buy this separately as an add-on." or "Download the latest update 9.1 or the latest trial version to explore a vast soundscape that will blow your mind!" (from an e-mail) gives me vibes that it only works with 9.1. But 100% I am wrong here, right?

I believe that when Modartt introduces a new Pianoteq instrument, they produce an update to Pianoteq that includes that instrument (in Demo mode). That instrument does not exist in previous versions of Pianoteq, so when or if you purchase that instrument, and register it in your user account and then update the license in your local copy of Pianoteq--
Pianoteq-->Options-->About-->Licence info-->Update licence
--the instrument which already exists in the new Pianoteq update changes from Demo mode to fully-licensed mode (without dead-keys, etc.).

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (10-12-2025 18:42)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

thimgrim wrote:

Only with 9.1?

You'll need v9.1 to access the instrument (in demo mode) and then you can purchase it to play it without the demo restrictions.

Edit: TRIPLE ANSWER COMBO UNLOCKED

Last edited by daniel_r328 (10-12-2025 18:42)

Re: Syngular

Honestly, as a synthesizer user for decades, I don't understand how it works as it appears, with more or less the same interface as for pianos. Isn't it a contradiction to use a synthesis engine (and its visual interface) created to emulate real-world sounds, but to create unreal, synthetic sounds? Then I listen to the choir patch and it sounds incredible, but where is that controlled? Is it formant processing, perhaps? Because that would be filters, but where are those filters in the interface? And those init-type sounds, with basic waveforms, where do they come from? Oscillators? Where are they? Where is the envelope sustain? I know this is thinking in terms of analog sound synthesis, not physical modeling, but... isn't it about synthesizing sound? Anyway, I love that Modartt has ventured into something so boldly different from what is expected of Pianoteq, but at the moment, it raises more questions than anything else. Furthermore, as someone has already mentioned above, the competition in this area is fierce: Omnisphere, Serum, Pigments, Alchemy,... (Or Synplant, to give a very bizarre example, with an interface, a synthesis engine and results on the same wavelength) and many more, all with a more suitable interface.

daniel_r328 wrote:

Well, I didn't see that coming

Thoughts?

Last edited by jmanrique (10-12-2025 19:41)

Re: Syngular

jmanrique wrote:

Honestly, as a synthesizer user for decades, I don't understand how it works as it appears, with more or less the same interface as for pianos. Isn't it a contradiction to use a synthesis engine (and its visual interface) created to emulate real-world sounds, but to create unreal, synthetic sounds? Then I listen to the choir patch and it sounds incredible, but where is that controlled? Is it formant processing, perhaps? Because that would be filters, but where are those filters in the interface? And those init-type sounds, with basic waveforms, where do they come from? Oscillators? Where are they? Where is the envelope sustain? I know this is thinking in terms of analog sound synthesis, not physical modeling, but... isn't it about synthesizing sound? ...

I agree that it would be nice to have access to a few more direct controls. For example, I would like to be able to control the complete range of decay of the Syngular core waveforms (sine, saw, square, triangle). Even with the Decay parameter in the design interface turned to its lowest setting (fastest decay/attenuation), and the Direct sound parameter moved to its highest setting (which counterintuitively produces the shortest length of sound sent to the virtual impedance soundboard), the decay of those basic waveforms is attenuated only to a degree, to a certain base volume that is quite noticeable and lasts for a very long time and with only a very gradual decay, evident if one keeps the note (or sustain pedal) depressed.

I'm guessing that the basic waveforms (sine, saw, square and triangle) are provided by the Pianoteq engine and made available to users as the Syngular presets that include those names. It would be nice if the Modartt/Pianoteq team further developed Syngular to provide users with some more complex initial wave shapes, such as those available as wavetables in various synths.

Regarding the choir preset parameters, I notice that the "Syngular Pad Mixed Choir" preset is composed of two layers, a "Mixed Choir 1" and a "Mixed Choir 2." Neither of those presets appear in the list of Syngular presets available to users, so I'm guessing that those are custom presets created and edited by the sound designer, each created by editing the Pianoteq parameters available to anyone (I'm hoping) in Pianoteq Pro, although the exact edits he or she made are a mystery (and sound great).   Further, I'm guessing that the sound designer then used those two private custom presets to create the 2-layer preset ("Syngular Pad Mixed Choir") that is one of the presets that were included with Syngular.

It would be nice if the sound designer of that preset (and perhaps others) would share a little about which Pianoteq parameters were most influential in creating the particular sound of those private custom presets ("Mixed Choir 1" and "Mixed Choir 2") as a guide to others who would like to explore the potentials and learn to make the best use of the Pianoteq interface and its exposed user-adjustable parameters.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (10-12-2025 20:35)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

It seems to me that something's fishy here; much of what we hear can't be controlled from the Pianoteq interface, even with the Pro version. (I have a similar feeling about the piano and bass patches, with a split point that's nowhere to be found...)

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
jmanrique wrote:

Honestly, as a synthesizer user for decades, I don't understand how it works as it appears, with more or less the same interface as for pianos. Isn't it a contradiction to use a synthesis engine (and its visual interface) created to emulate real-world sounds, but to create unreal, synthetic sounds? Then I listen to the choir patch and it sounds incredible, but where is that controlled? Is it formant processing, perhaps? Because that would be filters, but where are those filters in the interface? And those init-type sounds, with basic waveforms, where do they come from? Oscillators? Where are they? Where is the envelope sustain? I know this is thinking in terms of analog sound synthesis, not physical modeling, but... isn't it about synthesizing sound? ...

I agree that it would be nice to have access to a few more direct controls. For example, I would like to be able to control the complete range of decay of the Syngular core waveforms (sine, saw, square, triangle). Even with the Decay parameter in the design interface turned to its lowest setting (fastest decay/attenuation), and the Direct sound parameter moved to its highest setting (which counterintuitively produces the shortest length of sound sent to the virtual impedance soundboard), the decay of those basic waveforms is attenuated only to a degree, to a certain base volume that is quite noticeable and lasts for a very long time and with only a very gradual decay, evident if one keeps the note (or sustain pedal) depressed.

I'm guessing that the basic waveforms (sine, saw, square and triangle) are provided by the Pianoteq engine and made available to users as the Syngular presets that include those names. It would be nice if the Modartt/Pianoteq team further developed Syngular to provide users with some more complex initial wave shapes, such as those available as wavetables in various synths.

Regarding the choir preset parameters, I notice that the "Syngular Pad Mixed Choir" preset is composed of two layers, a "Mixed Choir 1" and a "Mixed Choir 2." Neither of those presets appear in the list of Syngular presets available to users, so I'm guessing that those are custom presets created and edited by the sound designer, each created by editing the Pianoteq parameters available to anyone (I'm hoping) in Pianoteq Pro, although the exact edits he or she made are a mystery (and sound great).   Further, I'm guessing that the sound designer then used those two private custom presets to create the 2-layer preset ("Syngular Pad Mixed Choir") that is one of the presets that were included with Syngular.

It would be nice if the sound designer of that preset (and perhaps others) would share a little about which Pianoteq parameters were most influential in creating the particular sound of those private custom presets ("Mixed Choir 1" and "Mixed Choir 2") as a guide to others who would like to explore the potentials and learn to make the best use of the Pianoteq interface and its exposed user-adjustable parameters.

Re: Syngular

thimgrim wrote:

Pianoteq older versions are not supported for this? Only with 9.1? Because juxtaposing this with "Already own Pianoteq (9.1 or higher)? Buy this separately as an add-on." or "Download the latest update 9.1 or the latest trial version to explore a vast soundscape that will blow your mind!" (from an e-mail) gives me vibes that it only works with 9.1. But 100% I am wrong here, right?

Not sure what you mean by "older versions", but upgrade from 9.0 to 9.1 is free (as all minor upgrades have always been). If you already own 9.0, just log in your user area and download the latest version.

Re: Syngular

jmanrique wrote:

It seems to me that something's fishy here; much of what we hear can't be controlled from the Pianoteq interface, even with the Pro version. (I have a similar feeling about the piano and bass patches, with a split point that's nowhere to be found) ...

In the piano/bass split patches, I believe that the "split" and "crossfade" are controlled and adjusted in the Note Edit panes, where the spectrum profile of the bass notes has been altered to a fairly large degree, and the fundamental frequency and many of the lower harmonics have been adjusted upward (made more prominent). For example, choose the K2 Basic preset, then open Note Edit and go to the Spectrum Profile pane, in which each of the 88-notes of a typical piano keyboard have their own spectrum profile. In the K2 Basic preset, each frequency (fundamental and harmonics) of the spectrum profile for each note is set to zero (meaning that they don't deviate from the basic spectrum profile used by Modartt for that piano model.

Then choose the preset "K2 Bass & Piano Split," with the Note Edit window and Spectrum Profile pane still open. Click on several of the individual piano notes (which are each represented by a square at the bottom of the pane, the leftmost indicating the lowest A on a piano, the rightmost square indicating the highest C. You'll notice that in the "K2 Bass & Piano Split" preset, the fundamental frequency and many of the lower harmonics are exaggerated (have increased values) in the lower range of notes, from the lowest A up toward middle C, giving that lower range of the piano more of a bass instrument sound than a piano sound. As you click some of the higher notes, you'll see that the spectrum profile becomes more and more like that of a piano, with the fundamental and lower harmonics not exaggerated (increased in volume relative to the other harmonics) as much as they are for the notes in the lower and bass range of the piano keyboard. Quite a few of the other parameters in Note Edit have also been adjusted in the bass range (compare them to the same parameters in K2 Basic) to make the lower range of piano keys sound more bass-like, including Detune, Hammer Hardness, Hammer Noise and Impedance, among others.

You can see an overview of the differences between a piano's basic preset (most closely resembling the instrument that has been modeled) and it's "Bass & Piano Split" preset (if one exists for that instrument) by using Pianoteq's A/B switch (at upper right of the Pianoteq interface), and setting A to the basic instrument preset, B to the "Bass & Piano Split" preset, and then right clicking on the A/B button to see a list of the differences between the two presets.

Regarding the "Syngular Pad Mixed Choir" preset, it seems to me from some initial examination that the Strikepoint, Harmonicity and Spectrum Profile settings have a fairly strong influence on the sound that becomes the "choir" sound. In addition, the Decay parameter of both layers of that Mixed Choir preset has been increased to maximum, so that the "voices" of the "singers" do not decrease in volume as long as the note is pressed on the keyboard (or the sustain pedal depressed).

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (10-12-2025 22:29)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Oh, the Spectrum profile! That's the key. I hadn't noticed it until now. Thanks!

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
jmanrique wrote:

It seems to me that something's fishy here; much of what we hear can't be controlled from the Pianoteq interface, even with the Pro version. (I have a similar feeling about the piano and bass patches, with a split point that's nowhere to be found) ...

In the piano/bass split patches, I believe that the "split" and "crossfade" are controlled and adjusted in the Note Edit panes, where the spectrum profile of the bass notes has been altered to a fairly large degree, and the fundamental frequency and many of the lower harmonics have been adjusted upward (made more prominent). For example, choose the K2 Basic preset, then open Note Edit and go to the Spectrum Profile pane, in which each of the 88-notes of a typical piano keyboard have their own spectrum profile. In the K2 Basic preset, each frequency (fundamental and harmonics) of the spectrum profile for each note is set to zero (meaning that they don't deviate from the basic spectrum profile used by Modartt for that piano model.

Then choose the preset "K2 Bass & Piano Split," with the Note Edit window and Spectrum Profile pane still open. Click on several of the individual piano notes (which are each represented by a square at the bottom of the pane, the leftmost indicating the lowest A on a piano, the rightmost square indicating the highest C. You'll notice that in the "K2 Bass & Piano Split" preset, the fundamental frequency and many of the lower harmonics are exaggerated (have increased values) in the lower range of notes, from the lowest A up toward middle C, giving that lower range of the piano more of a bass instrument sound than a piano sound. As you click some of the higher notes, you'll see that the spectrum profile becomes more and more like that of a piano, with the fundamental and lower harmonics not exaggerated (increased in volume relative to the other harmonics) as much as they are for the notes in the lower and bass range of the piano keyboard. Quite a few of the other parameters in Note Edit have also been adjusted in the bass range (compare them to the same parameters in K2 Basic) to make the lower range of piano keys sound more bass-like, including Detune, Hammer Hardness, Hammer Noise and Impedance, among others.

You can see an overview of the differences between a piano's basic preset (most closely resembling the instrument that has been modeled) and it's "Bass & Piano Split" preset (if one exists for that instrument) by using Pianoteq's A/B switch (at upper right of the Pianoteq interface), and setting A to the basic instrument preset, B to the "Bass & Piano Split" preset, and then right clicking on the A/B button to see a list of the differences between the two presets.

Regarding the "Syngular Pad Mixed Choir" preset, it seems to me from some initial examination that the Strikepoint, Harmonicity and Spectrum Profile settings have a fairly strong influence on the sound that becomes the "choir" sound. In addition, the Decay parameter of both layers of that Mixed Choir preset has been increased to maximum, so that the "voices" of the "singers" do not decrease in volume as long as the note is pressed on the keyboard (or the sustain pedal depressed).

Re: Syngular

But something intrigues me now: the Spectrum profile is dynamic, because the timbre evolves (typically the upper harmonics decay before the lower ones), so: is the one we see in Note Edit the one it has at the moment of attack? And where is the evolution of that Spectrum profile controlled?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
jmanrique wrote:

It seems to me that something's fishy here; much of what we hear can't be controlled from the Pianoteq interface, even with the Pro version. (I have a similar feeling about the piano and bass patches, with a split point that's nowhere to be found) ...

In the piano/bass split patches, I believe that the "split" and "crossfade" are controlled and adjusted in the Note Edit panes, where the spectrum profile of the bass notes has been altered to a fairly large degree, and the fundamental frequency and many of the lower harmonics have been adjusted upward (made more prominent). For example, choose the K2 Basic preset, then open Note Edit and go to the Spectrum Profile pane, in which each of the 88-notes of a typical piano keyboard have their own spectrum profile. In the K2 Basic preset, each frequency (fundamental and harmonics) of the spectrum profile for each note is set to zero (meaning that they don't deviate from the basic spectrum profile used by Modartt for that piano model.

Then choose the preset "K2 Bass & Piano Split," with the Note Edit window and Spectrum Profile pane still open. Click on several of the individual piano notes (which are each represented by a square at the bottom of the pane, the leftmost indicating the lowest A on a piano, the rightmost square indicating the highest C. You'll notice that in the "K2 Bass & Piano Split" preset, the fundamental frequency and many of the lower harmonics are exaggerated (have increased values) in the lower range of notes, from the lowest A up toward middle C, giving that lower range of the piano more of a bass instrument sound than a piano sound. As you click some of the higher notes, you'll see that the spectrum profile becomes more and more like that of a piano, with the fundamental and lower harmonics not exaggerated (increased in volume relative to the other harmonics) as much as they are for the notes in the lower and bass range of the piano keyboard. Quite a few of the other parameters in Note Edit have also been adjusted in the bass range (compare them to the same parameters in K2 Basic) to make the lower range of piano keys sound more bass-like, including Detune, Hammer Hardness, Hammer Noise and Impedance, among others.

You can see an overview of the differences between a piano's basic preset (most closely resembling the instrument that has been modeled) and it's "Bass & Piano Split" preset (if one exists for that instrument) by using Pianoteq's A/B switch (at upper right of the Pianoteq interface), and setting A to the basic instrument preset, B to the "Bass & Piano Split" preset, and then right clicking on the A/B button to see a list of the differences between the two presets.

Regarding the "Syngular Pad Mixed Choir" preset, it seems to me from some initial examination that the Strikepoint, Harmonicity and Spectrum Profile settings have a fairly strong influence on the sound that becomes the "choir" sound. In addition, the Decay parameter of both layers of that Mixed Choir preset has been increased to maximum, so that the "voices" of the "singers" do not decrease in volume as long as the note is pressed on the keyboard (or the sustain pedal depressed).

Re: Syngular

jmanrique wrote:

But something intrigues me now: the Spectrum profile is dynamic, because the timbre evolves (typically the upper harmonics decay before the lower ones), so: is the one we see in Note Edit the one it has at the moment of attack? And where is the evolution of that Spectrum profile controlled?

I believe that the Spectrum profile simply determines the volume or prominence of the fundamental frequency and its harmonic frequencies relative to each other.

Some timbre evolution over time I think might be baked into the model for the instrument, but a lot of other parameters affect it, some very strongly, including the soundboard and its impedance, the slope of decay of the soundboard volume, the Blooming energy and inertia, the length of the Direct Sound Duration contrasted with the continued resonance of the dynamic soundboard, the phasing involved in unison widths (like 2 or 3 voices in a synthesizer, that are detuned slightly to introduce phasing between frequencies), note effects (if any) including modulation rate, vibrato and tremolo, stretch tuning (in the Advanced section of the Tuning dropdown menu), hammer hardness, etc.

To get an idea of what the raw model sounds like for most instruments, aside from the many parameters that affect it, change the soundboard impedance to its lowest possible value while making both the frequency and the frequency-decay slope at their highest value, and change the Direct Sound duration to its lowest value (which actually causes the direct sound to be much longer, I'm guessing because the higher the value, the more rapidly the direct-sound decreases in volume, as the soundboard and its impedance begin to carry and resonate that sound and cause dynamic timbre change over time).

If you do a similar thing with the core Syngular preset waveforms (sine, saw, square, triangle), reducing the Direct Sound duration to minimum, increasing Decay to maximum, and moving the settings for other parameters so that the have little or no effect on the basic sound, you'll hear what sounds very much like the raw, persistent audio of the same waveforms on virtual synths from other sources.

You can also disable stretch tuning, move unison width to zero, and change other settings to the extreme that has the least effect on the basic sound of the model. Blooming energy and inertia also strongly affect the timbre over time.

Regarding the string pads added as a layer in some presets, you'll notice that the unison width has been greatly increased for most of the piano range for that layer, which makes the notes seem to be played by two or three instruments (like two or three violins) as opposed to one piano with only slightly detuned unison strings in the middle and upper registers where an acoustic piano has two or three strings per note.

Pianoteq can do so much and offers so much control and configurability to the user, although the parameters that are relevant may not exactly correspond with or have the same name as the methods used to achieve the same or similar results in many virtual synthesizers (the keyboard split and crossfade between split-zones is just one example).

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 06:22)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Bought it,, says I own it, not showing up...and yes 9.1

Pianoteq 8, most pianos, Studiologic 73 Piano, Casio Px-560M, PX-S 3100, PX-S 3000, PX-S 1100, PX-S 7000, Mac i27 and MacBook Pro M3, SS Logic SSL 2, Roland RD 88, Kawai ES-520

Re: Syngular

Kramster1 wrote:

Bought it,, says I own it, not showing up...and yes 9.1

Options | About | Update License

Re: Syngular

Coises wrote:
Kramster1 wrote:

Bought it,, says I own it, not showing up...and yes 9.1

Options | About | Update License

Didn't work. Says "Your licence of Pianoteq already contains Syngular" yet not there ..sigh

Last edited by Kramster1 (Yesterday 02:24)
Pianoteq 8, most pianos, Studiologic 73 Piano, Casio Px-560M, PX-S 3100, PX-S 3000, PX-S 1100, PX-S 7000, Mac i27 and MacBook Pro M3, SS Logic SSL 2, Roland RD 88, Kawai ES-520

Re: Syngular

Kramster1 wrote:

Didn't work

First you need to register it in your user profile at modartt.com. Then on your computer, open Pianoteq, Options-->About-->Licence Info-->Update Licence

Then a popup window will offer a quick online update-activation, or an offline one.

     Syngular will appear under the "Electric Pianos" section of the instrument list.

If you already knew all this and still have problems, you might consult Modartt/Pianoteq support.

https://www.modartt.com/support

or use the "I have another question" link at the bottom of that webpage.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 02:29)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Kramster1 wrote:

Didn't work

First you need to register it in your user profile at modartt.com. Then on your computer, open Pianoteq, Options-->About-->Licence Info-->Update Licence

Then a popup window will offer a quick online update-activation, or an offline one.

     Syngular will appear under the "Electric Pianos" section of the instrument list.

If you already knew all this and still have problems, you might consult Modartt/Pianoteq support.

https://www.modartt.com/support

or use the "I have another question" link at the bottom of that webpage.


Got it done!! Thanks !!

Pianoteq 8, most pianos, Studiologic 73 Piano, Casio Px-560M, PX-S 3100, PX-S 3000, PX-S 1100, PX-S 7000, Mac i27 and MacBook Pro M3, SS Logic SSL 2, Roland RD 88, Kawai ES-520

Re: Syngular

jmanrique wrote:

... Then I listen to the choir patch and it sounds incredible, but where is that controlled? Is it formant processing, perhaps?

Regarding formants (and Pianoteq's per-note spectrum profile), Google's AI search result was interesting--

Formants are the prominent, resonant peaks in a sound's
spectrum profile, acting as "fingerprints" of the vocal tract's shape, especially for vowels; they show up as energy bulges in the frequency graph, reflecting vocal tract resonances (like F1, F2, F3) that distinguish different vowel sounds and voice qualities, shaping the overall spectral envelope.
The Relationship Explained

    Source-Filter Model: Speech starts with the vocal folds producing a sound source (fundamental frequency and harmonics). The vocal tract (throat, mouth, nose) acts as a filter, amplifying certain frequencies and dampening others, creating resonances.
    Spectrum Profile: A spectrum profile (or power spectrum) shows the intensity (loudness) of different frequencies in a sound.
    Formants as Peaks: Formants are the distinct, broad peaks or maxima in this spectrum profile. They aren't new frequencies but rather existing harmonics boosted by vocal tract resonances.
    Vowel Identity: The specific frequencies (F1, F2, F3) and bandwidths of these peaks are highly dependent on tongue, lip, and jaw positions, defining each vowel sound (e.g., /i/ as in "see" vs. /a/ as in "father").
    Timbre/Voice Quality: Formants contribute significantly to the unique timbre or quality of a voice (e.g., why a trumpet sounds different from a violin playing the same note).

In Simple Terms:
Imagine singing into a tube. If you change the tube's shape (your mouth), some pitches (frequencies) will sound louder (resonances/formants) while others get quieter. The spectrum shows which pitches are boosted; formants are those amplified spots, defining the vowel sound you hear.
Example:

    Spectrum: A graph with a line showing loud sounds at 500Hz, 1500Hz, and 2500Hz.
    Formants: These loud spots (500Hz, 1500Hz, 2500Hz) are the formants (F1, F2, F3), telling us it's likely a specific vowel sound.

I'm wondering if the creator of the Mixed Choir preset of Syngular referred to spectrum-profile graphs of recorded audio of real voices. I think that if I wanted to do something similar, I might consult a sample library of human voices and look at the frequency spectrum in a visualizer in a DAW, and try to mimic the spectrum profile of various ranges from bass to soprano either note by note in Pianoteq Note Edit, or perhaps 10-15 control notes across the entire range, with Pianoteq's automatic interpolation of incremental spectrum changes from control point to control point filling the spaces (notes) between the control-point notes.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 03:16)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Opened Pianoteq standalone app, layered the HB Steinway D Sombre preset with the Syngular Mixed Choir and played this live (no edits) while Pianoteq recorded the MIDI, then exported the audio file as MP3 using Pianoteq's export feature. Not totally clean since the piano and voices weren't recorded separately in a DAW and edited, and the sustain pedal I used for piano muddied the voices a bit, but quick, easy and fun. So, all done using just the Pianoteq standalone app.

Really like Syngular--

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?file=echoes.mp3

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 07:50)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Hy everyone,

since I bought the Studio-Bundle less than a year ago and all new Instruments that get released within a year are free, I thought it would include the new Syngular. Maybe I'm wrong here. But if not, I wonder how to get it. I can use it in demo mode. I went to "options > about > update licence" but still only demo mode. In my account, it doesn't show up, either.

Thank you for any help or clarification

Re: Syngular

Major1981 wrote:

Hy everyone,

since I bought the Studio-Bundle less than a year ago and all new Instruments that get released within a year are free, I thought it would include the new Syngular. Maybe I'm wrong here. But if not, I wonder how to get it. I can use it in demo mode. I went to "options > about > update licence" but still only demo mode. In my account, it doesn't show up, either.

Thank you for any help or clarification

We are working on that and it should be resolved soon. Sorry for the inconvenience. Don't hesitate to contact our support team if you have any further question.

Re: Syngular

Niclas Fogwall wrote:
Major1981 wrote:

Hy everyone,

since I bought the Studio-Bundle less than a year ago and all new Instruments that get released within a year are free, I thought it would include the new Syngular. Maybe I'm wrong here. But if not, I wonder how to get it. I can use it in demo mode. I went to "options > about > update licence" but still only demo mode. In my account, it doesn't show up, either.

Thank you for any help or clarification

We are working on that and it should be resolved soon. Sorry for the inconvenience. Don't hesitate to contact our support team if you have any further question.

Thank you. No hurry

Re: Syngular

I have just read about this new package. Haven't tried it or bought it yet but appreciate the concept. I rarely use synthesizer sounds but this adds a lot of value to the box when using Pianoteq on a mobile device in life settings. So now I have some basic synths to fool around with on stage.

Thanks Modart!

There is only one thing left that I miss in Pianoteq and that's a Hammond B3 emulation.

Re: Syngular

I think I’m starting to understand it: the physical model is precisely that, it uses a huge amount of mathematics and physics to produce sounds with a complexity similar to that of acoustic instruments, which, unlike synthesizers, already have a timbre that evolves over time.
Then the interface that lets us make changes obviously has to be simplified so it’s accessible to musicians, who are the end users.

I’m now remembering a synthesizer, Morphine, which did resynthesis by turning a sample into a spectrum whose partials were controlled by an envelope that governed exactly what I was talking about: the temporal evolution of the spectrum, which would be the combined temporal evolutions of each partial.
But that wasn’t physical modeling at all, it was additive synthesis.

My question now is: if Pianoteq works through physical modeling, what is the real role of the Spectrum Profile? Would it be something like an “additive” starting point, a kind of base color, with the hidden mathematics of the model then taking care of the spectral evolution?
But then there’s also dynamic behaviour: a loud sound doesn’t have the same Spectrum Profile as a soft one, which would mean that a Pianoteq instrument would actually have thousands and thousands of Spectrum Profiles (each key at every dynamic level), and only as a starting point, without even considering the spectral evolution.
But it’s obvious that this isn’t how physical modeling works, but rather an additive resynthesis.
So, in Pianoteq, what is it exactly that we’re seeing and modifying in the Spectrum Profile?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
jmanrique wrote:

But something intrigues me now: the Spectrum profile is dynamic, because the timbre evolves (typically the upper harmonics decay before the lower ones), so: is the one we see in Note Edit the one it has at the moment of attack? And where is the evolution of that Spectrum profile controlled?

I believe that the Spectrum profile simply determines the volume or prominence of the fundamental frequency and its harmonic frequencies relative to each other.

Some timbre evolution over time I think might be baked into the model for the instrument, but a lot of other parameters affect it, some very strongly, including the soundboard and its impedance, the slope of decay of the soundboard volume, the Blooming energy and inertia, the length of the Direct Sound Duration contrasted with the continued resonance of the dynamic soundboard, the phasing involved in unison widths (like 2 or 3 voices in a synthesizer, that are detuned slightly to introduce phasing between frequencies), note effects (if any) including modulation rate, vibrato and tremolo, stretch tuning (in the Advanced section of the Tuning dropdown menu), hammer hardness, etc.

To get an idea of what the raw model sounds like for most instruments, aside from the many parameters that affect it, change the soundboard impedance to its lowest possible value while making both the frequency and the frequency-decay slope at their highest value, and change the Direct Sound duration to its lowest value (which actually causes the direct sound to be much longer, I'm guessing because the higher the value, the more rapidly the direct-sound decreases in volume, as the soundboard and its impedance begin to carry and resonate that sound and cause dynamic timbre change over time).

If you do a similar thing with the core Syngular preset waveforms (sine, saw, square, triangle), reducing the Direct Sound duration to minimum, increasing Decay to maximum, and moving the settings for other parameters so that the have little or no effect on the basic sound, you'll hear what sounds very much like the raw, persistent audio of the same waveforms on virtual synths from other sources.

You can also disable stretch tuning, move unison width to zero, and change other settings to the extreme that has the least effect on the basic sound of the model. Blooming energy and inertia also strongly affect the timbre over time.

Regarding the string pads added as a layer in some presets, you'll notice that the unison width has been greatly increased for most of the piano range for that layer, which makes the notes seem to be played by two or three instruments (like two or three violins) as opposed to one piano with only slightly detuned unison strings in the middle and upper registers where an acoustic piano has two or three strings per note.

Pianoteq can do so much and offers so much control and configurability to the user, although the parameters that are relevant may not exactly correspond with or have the same name as the methods used to achieve the same or similar results in many virtual synthesizers (the keyboard split and crossfade between split-zones is just one example).

Last edited by jmanrique (Yesterday 10:44)

Re: Syngular

In the end, we keep coming back to the same thing: the Spectrum Profile.
It’s a very clear way of looking at it, but I understand it goes in a different direction from physical modeling, although… now that I think about it, a few weeks ago we were also talking here about the inner workings of physical modeling, wondering whether they worked directly with a real instrument or through samples, and it turns out they were using samples (usually recorded by Modartt, others supplied by the piano manufacturer, like in the case of the Bechstein).
So with samples, just like in additive resynthesis! What a tangle! (I can almost picture the Modartt engineers having a gentle laugh while reading our amateur debates in their spare time...)

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
jmanrique wrote:

... Then I listen to the choir patch and it sounds incredible, but where is that controlled? Is it formant processing, perhaps?

Regarding formants (and Pianoteq's per-note spectrum profile), Google's AI search result was interesting--

Formants are the prominent, resonant peaks in a sound's
spectrum profile, acting as "fingerprints" of the vocal tract's shape, especially for vowels; they show up as energy bulges in the frequency graph, reflecting vocal tract resonances (like F1, F2, F3) that distinguish different vowel sounds and voice qualities, shaping the overall spectral envelope.
The Relationship Explained

    Source-Filter Model: Speech starts with the vocal folds producing a sound source (fundamental frequency and harmonics). The vocal tract (throat, mouth, nose) acts as a filter, amplifying certain frequencies and dampening others, creating resonances.
    Spectrum Profile: A spectrum profile (or power spectrum) shows the intensity (loudness) of different frequencies in a sound.
    Formants as Peaks: Formants are the distinct, broad peaks or maxima in this spectrum profile. They aren't new frequencies but rather existing harmonics boosted by vocal tract resonances.
    Vowel Identity: The specific frequencies (F1, F2, F3) and bandwidths of these peaks are highly dependent on tongue, lip, and jaw positions, defining each vowel sound (e.g., /i/ as in "see" vs. /a/ as in "father").
    Timbre/Voice Quality: Formants contribute significantly to the unique timbre or quality of a voice (e.g., why a trumpet sounds different from a violin playing the same note).

In Simple Terms:
Imagine singing into a tube. If you change the tube's shape (your mouth), some pitches (frequencies) will sound louder (resonances/formants) while others get quieter. The spectrum shows which pitches are boosted; formants are those amplified spots, defining the vowel sound you hear.
Example:

    Spectrum: A graph with a line showing loud sounds at 500Hz, 1500Hz, and 2500Hz.
    Formants: These loud spots (500Hz, 1500Hz, 2500Hz) are the formants (F1, F2, F3), telling us it's likely a specific vowel sound.

I'm wondering if the creator of the Mixed Choir preset of Syngular referred to spectrum-profile graphs of recorded audio of real voices. I think that if I wanted to do something similar, I might consult a sample library of human voices and look at the frequency spectrum in a visualizer in a DAW, and try to mimic the spectrum profile of various ranges from bass to soprano either note by note in Pianoteq Note Edit, or perhaps 10-15 control notes across the entire range, with Pianoteq's automatic interpolation of incremental spectrum changes from control point to control point filling the spaces (notes) between the control-point notes.

Last edited by jmanrique (Yesterday 11:49)

Re: Syngular

je viens de télécharger Syngular et je suis agréablement surpris par la qualité des presets notamment le  "Syngular Pad Mixed Choir" belle évolution de Moddart , bravo.

"Il ne me manque plus qu'une chose dans Pianoteq : une émulation d'orgue Hammond B3."

et pourquoi pas un Stringteq ?

Re: Syngular

jmanrique wrote:

... My question now is: if Pianoteq works through physical modeling, what is the real role of the Spectrum Profile? Would it be something like an “additive” starting point, a kind of base color, with the hidden mathematics of the model then taking care of the spectral evolution?
But then there’s also dynamic behaviour: a loud sound doesn’t have the same Spectrum Profile as a soft one ...

In an acoustic piano, the spectrum profile varies a lot from range to range (bass to midrange to treble, and ranges between), and note to note. So if one wants to faithfully model a piano that actually exists "in the real world," one would (I'm guessing) need to adjust the spectrum profile as observable in a graphical representation of the frequency spectrum of a recording (or live microphone) of each of the 88 notes (or more, in the case of the Bosendorfer Imperial).

Regarding the effects of dynamics (audio amplitude) on the spectrum, Pianoteq's model has quite a few parameters that control and adjust the timbre of a sound produced by a note as its dynamics are controlled by MIDI velocity, by the Dynamics slider in Pianoteq, by the velocity offset in the velocity curve window (the small dash - in the middle of the left side of the Velocity pane, which can be dragged up or down), including the hammer hardness parameter, and in the case of Syngular, the corresponding "Plucking brightness." In addition, blooming energy and inertia, and in the physical piano models, the soundboard interaction and resonances as it responds to and processes the incoming direct sound of the model, etc.

So, Pianoteq certainly comes from a different place, or different starting point in terms of fundamental design and ideals, features and parameters, and how those parameters are controlled, compared to many virtual synthesizers, and lacks some synthesizer features such as advanced envelope creation and manipulation techniques and vast array of modulation options not only of parameters affecting sound, but of the modulators themselves. But a weakness in my opinion of a lot of modern synthesizers is the plain-ness and dullness of their original sound sources (the fundamental wave types), although they are becoming more and more complex with wavetables, granular synthesis, etc. And I really like the pristine beauty of FM synthesis if the modulating operators' ratios are aligned. But I find Pianoteq's approach very rich and interesting, and its versatility and vast user-configurability of nearly everything is very impressive, as are the Modartt developers and team.

And yes, they might get a laugh or chuckle from our recent conversation, but it has been interesting.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 15:02)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Totally kewl ...*-)

Now me only need Drums and a Step-Sequencer to have me own lil Pteq-Daw ...

Music was my first love. And it will be my last. Music of the future. And music of the past (John Miles)

Re: Syngular

Noticed in the video demos for Syngular, that it appears the typical method for adding subharmonic and harmonic offsets (octaves, tritaves, etc.) is by using the diapason setting given in frequencies...

So, for example:

1/4 (subharmonic 4) = 110 Hz
1/3 (subharmonic 3) = 146.6667 Hz
1/2 (subharmonic 2) = 220 Hz
1/1 concert A unison = 440 Hz
2/1 (harmonic 2) = 880 Hz
3/1 (harmonic 3) = 1320 Hz
4/1 (harmonic 4) = 1760

FWIW, this is how I've been achieving the same with the layering feature of Pianoteq, prior to the introduction of Syngular.

As was mentioned above, I'm hoping there will be a way to to include this instrument pack in Pianoteq 9 Studio, which is what's in use here.

Last edited by JL (Yesterday 19:09)

Re: Syngular

JL wrote:

Noticed in the video demos for Syngular, that it appears the typical method for adding subharmonic and harmonic offsets (octaves, tritaves, etc.) is by using the diapason setting given in frequencies...

Do you mean for one of the following cases?

* 2 or more instances of the Pianoteq plugin in a Daw, one or more set to (transposed to) different octaves/semitones?
  --> In that case, Pianoteq-->Options-->MIDI-->Notes-transposition is available
* 2 or more layers within Pianoteq?
  --> In that case, a Pianoteq-->Layers-->(a specific layer)-->Transpose-popup-button (just to the left of the layer name) is available
* Something else?

Syngular presets, like other Pianoteq instrument presets, when used as a layer include the transposition-button pop-up-menu in the Layers window.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 21:37)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Syngular

Pads was my most wanted feature, this goes way further. Love it! I'm grateful they responded to feedback and delivered far more than hoped for.

Re: Syngular

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
JL wrote:

Noticed in the video demos for Syngular, that it appears the typical method for adding subharmonic and harmonic offsets (octaves, tritaves, etc.) is by using the diapason setting given in frequencies...

Do you mean for one of the following cases?

* 2 or more instances of the Pianoteq plugin in a Daw, one or more set to (transposed to) different octaves/semitones?
  --> In that case, Pianoteq-->Options-->MIDI-->Notes-transposition is available
* 2 or more layers within Pianoteq?
  --> In that case, a Pianoteq-->Layers-->(a specific layer)-->Transpose-popup-button (just to the left of the layer name) is available
* Something else?

Syngular presets, like other Pianoteq instrument presets, when used as a layer include the transposition-button pop-up-menu in the Layers window.

Hi. Thanks for your reply...

The Layer transposition feature is MIDI Note offsets, which does cover many basic use cases, and which luckily does actually follow the periods (or repetition intervals) of musical intonations that are applied when one is using an instance of MTS-ESP master in the project...

However, "for adding subharmonic and harmonic offsets", MIDI transpositions can get close in many cases, but are not always as precise, as when for example one needs an exact 3/1 or 1/3 above or below, and in this scenario, I believe using frequency offsets of the diapason is the best method, unless there is some ability to use harmonic or subharmonic offsets that I've missed.

But you are correct in pointing out that any octave transpositions can easily be made using the MIDI Note transposition feature in the Layers section.

And this is a really useful feature for scenarios where one is playing in musical intonations with </> 12 notes to the period (usually 2/1 octaves), such as 17, 19, 29 or 31 tone equal-temperaments.

Last edited by JL (Yesterday 23:33)

Re: Syngular

What does Syngular mean? How are the different presets related to each other?

For example, how is Choir related to Strings?

I'm not complaining that we have all the options, but I'm trying to understand how one sound is related to the other in terms of the modelling?

Pretty fascinating stuff, thanks a lot for delivering what Pianoteq users have been asking for and more!

Last edited by navindra (Today 06:46)

Re: Syngular

I've tried the demo today, I think it's an amazing addon to the pianoteq library. Things I tried:

- Adding body to a piano with the help of Syngular -> select the Sine preset, set up 2 layers in pianoteq, add the piano of your choice in the second layer, set both volume layers to 50, then add a crossfade around c2 for the sine, so that the sine only plays in the lower area of your piano sound. The body it adds to your piano model is incredible. Very comparable to my nord stage 4 sound i'm used to.
- Adding Pads beneath a piano to create a worship piano sound
- Trying to use the lfo section in syngular
- Adding external granular effect processors over the pad presets -> instant ambient result
- Trying to program some modern dance presets

It's not comparable to the modern synths out here (like pigments, massive X or the korg wavestate, etc.), but I think that it adds a lot of possibilities to the pianos by adding creative layering presets, so for that I think it's a perfect addon in the piano model library.

Things I will use the most from this synth is the Sine feature, it was one thing I was really missing because it can add so much to the piano body sound by adding it subtle to the low range. For me this will be an instant buy.

Re: Syngular

I upgraded to Pianoteq 9 studio two weeks ago and was really amazed to discover this new pack added to my account for free today.
Thank you Modartt!!

The sound is (to me) instantly inspiring, much more so than with Arturia Pigments that I've tried to connect with. Even with the latest physical modeling engine, it doesn't feel alive to me. While Syngular really does!

Re: Syngular

navindra wrote:

What does Syngular mean?!

Modartt not only layers sounds but also words :
Synthetiser + Singular => Syngular

Re: Syngular

Syngular Choir at Church Service (first test)

I think Syngular is a wonderful addition to all the wonderful pianos. A new, different, unique instrument.
I'm testing all those presets and using here only Syngular Pad mixed choir (without piano) as ”A Syngular - Choir” in church service.
Later, in Recordings, I’m going to have combinations with Organteq and Pianoteq and Syngular together, and Syngular as Soloist in pieces.

Thank you all at Modartt! Excellent work. Extremely impressive, remarkably great. Love it!!

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...ervice.mp3

Best wishes,

Stig

Last edited by Pianoteqenthusiast (Today 17:32)

Re: Syngular

Robinez wrote:

... then add a crossfade around c2

MIDI note 36 or 48? (The lowest C on a piano is sometimes considered C0 and sometimes as C1.)

And by "crossfade" do you mean using Note Edit-->Volume to gradually reduce the volume of the sine wave for the bass notes nearer to the piano midrange, or to decrease the piano-layer volume as the notes progress (or digress?) from the midrange toward the bass, or both, or something else?

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Today 17:57)
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Linux, Mac OS, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq