Topic by jmanrique

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Topic: Help choosing a piano

Well, I know choosing between models is very subjective. I’ve been trying them all for a long time (in the excellent demo mode). I have the Standard version with Kawai, Petrof and Blüthner. I love all three, although maybe the Petrofs—especially the 275—are the ones I like most. They’re the only ones that, from the very first time I tried them until today, I still like just as much, if not more. The rest, both the ones I own and the demo models, vary a lot from one day to the next—what I mean is, my taste finds them different (I know they don’t actually change from day to day, it’s me, but that doesn’t happen with the Petrofs).
I’m a classically trained pianist, although I like jazz and pop-rock, but I admit that what I play the most is classical—from Bach to Ligeti. I want to take advantage of Black Friday to upgrade to the Pro version, and my question is which piano to choose:

- Steinway D: I initially dismissed it because it sounded like the same old thing. That sound is so ubiquitous it can get tiring. But it’s true that when playing classical music, you switch between pianos looking for the most suitable one, and suddenly you land on this one and think: I found it. (Indeed, I found the sound my ears have been accustomed to for decades, especially for Romantic repertoire onwards.)

- Steinway B: the alternative, which I hear as so different from the D, yet still a standard. It would give me not only a different sound but also that of a shorter, more chamber-like piano.

- Steingraeber: At first it went unnoticed, but then it slowly became a favourite. It has a special presence—almost hyper-realistic, I’d say. To me more than any other, as if it were sampled (though wonderfully, it isn’t).

- Bösendorfer: I’ve never really connected with it, sorry—I don’t quite understand why it has so many fans.

- Bechstein: I never get tired of listening to the demo of the “under the lid” patch—a Bartók étude. But when I actually play it, I can’t quite find its sweet spot, even though overall it sounds incredibly good.

- Grotrian: I see it as a kind of mid-range Steingraeber—same qualities but less pronounced. It’s probably something personal, but that’s how I perceive it.

Thanks in advance!

Reply by daniel_r328

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Re: Help choosing a piano

Ah, I've been thinking too much about instrument choices as part of the Black Friday sale so am grateful for an opportunity to brain-dump. Disclaimer: I play almost exclusively classical, so don't have much to say about e.g. the electic models, though I understand they are excellent

1. The must-haves in my opinion are Steinway D (we hate to love them but we love them - and they've really leveled up with v9), the Bosendorfer (for that cinematic bass), the Kawai (for that competition-esque precision playing) and the Steingraeber (for clean percussive playing... I think of it as a German Yamaha)

2. On the round-out-your-collection tier, there's the Bluthner for its uniqueness, the Steinway B for more intimate "salon-style" playing, and the U4 because everyone needs an upright.

Special shout-out to Kremsegg 2 which features the beautiful 1899 Bechstein; it doesn't really fill any gaps left by the two tiers but it just has such amazing textures.

I've not listed the Petrofs even though I really like them, simply because I found that I can get a sound very similar to the 275 with slight tweaks to the Bosendorfer, while still benefitting from the latter's superior bass. And actually, a 66%/33% morph of the Bosendorfer and the Steingraeber gets me very close to the Mistral. (Also I think they are fantastic instruments for jazz and modern play, so it makes sense that you get more out of them than I could)

The Grotian and Bechstein fight in the same lane as the Steingraeber, which for me wins. I had the same journey as you - I liked it more and more, and after playing it for a few months, my fondness is still growing. It's a great one!

I get why you're cold about the Bosendorfer - I needed to tweak the voicing a bit (esp unison width) to make the mids and treble sound more rounded, but that was a worthy tweak to get access to that bass. It depends how highly you value that - I'd say, between the Bosendorfer, the Petrofs and the Steingraeber, you only need two.



So combining my own biases with your preferences, my recommendations by order of confidence are:
1. Get the Steingraeber, you'll keep loving it
2. Get the Steinway Ds; familiarity does breed contempt, I get it, but once you make it your own with your playing, it will sound less stereotypical. Its Pianoteq's flagship pack and has seen so much growth in recent versions, so I think they will keep looking after it well.
3. Maybe get the Steinway B in addition. I look at it not as an alternative but as an extension to the concert grand offerings. There's no intellectual "need" for it but it's just so fun to play; personally I produce more interesting improv on it than on the others.

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Help choosing a piano

daniel_r328 wrote:

Ah, I've been thinking too much about instrument choices as part of the Black Friday sale so am grateful for an opportunity to brain-dump. Disclaimer: I play almost exclusively classical, so don't have much to say about e.g. the electic models, though I understand they are excellent

1. The must-haves in my opinion are Steinway D (we hate to love them but we love them - and they've really leveled up with v9), the Bosendorfer (for that cinematic bass), the Kawai (for that competition-esque precision playing) and the Steingraeber (for clean percussive playing... I think of it as a German Yamaha)

2. On the round-out-your-collection tier, there's the Bluthner for its uniqueness, the Steinway B for more intimate "salon-style" playing, and the U4 because everyone needs an upright.

Special shout-out to Kremsegg 2 which features the beautiful 1899 Bechstein; it doesn't really fill any gaps left by the two tiers but it just has such amazing textures.

I've not listed the Petrofs even though I really like them, simply because I found that I can get a sound very similar to the 275 with slight tweaks to the Bosendorfer, while still benefitting from the latter's superior bass. And actually, a 66%/33% morph of the Bosendorfer and the Steingraeber gets me very close to the Mistral. (Also I think they are fantastic instruments for jazz and modern play, so it makes sense that you get more out of them than I could)

The Grotian and Bechstein fight in the same lane as the Steingraeber, which for me wins. I had the same journey as you - I liked it more and more, and after playing it for a few months, my fondness is still growing. It's a great one!

I get why you're cold about the Bosendorfer - I needed to tweak the voicing a bit (esp unison width) to make the mids and treble sound more rounded, but that was a worthy tweak to get access to that bass. It depends how highly you value that - I'd say, between the Bosendorfer, the Petrofs and the Steingraeber, you only need two.



So combining my own biases with your preferences, my recommendations by order of confidence are:
1. Get the Steingraeber, you'll keep loving it
2. Get the Steinway Ds; familiarity does breed contempt, I get it, but once you make it your own with your playing, it will sound less stereotypical. Its Pianoteq's flagship pack and has seen so much growth in recent versions, so I think they will keep looking after it well.
3. Maybe get the Steinway B in addition. I look at it not as an alternative but as an extension to the concert grand offerings. There's no intellectual "need" for it but it's just so fun to play; personally I produce more interesting improv on it than on the others.

Very nice. How did you tweak the 280VC specifically? Sharing is caring

Reply by daniel_r328

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Re: Help choosing a piano

dikrek wrote:

How did you tweak the 280VC specifically?

Nothing fancy - I just upped the unison width to 1.3 and increased the piano and mezzo hammer hardnesses a touch. There's probably further improvements I could have found but these cleaned up the mid and treble sufficiently, bringing the sound closer to the Petrofs (I was torn between the Bosi and the Petrofs at the time), so I left it at that

Reply by Coises

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Re: Help choosing a piano

The Steinway B is my favorite for “every day” playing. It sounds more natural to me, I think, because it isn’t so big as to be entirely unrealistic in a room in my home. I’m just an amateur, non-classical, in it for the joy of it. When I do make a recording, I usually use one of the other pianos; but for songwriting, improvisation and practice, I really like the B.

Last edited by Coises (26-11-2025 17:34)

Reply by jmanrique

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Re: Help choosing a piano

daniel_r328 wrote:

Ah, I've been thinking too much about instrument choices as part of the Black Friday sale so am grateful for an opportunity to brain-dump. Disclaimer: I play almost exclusively classical, so don't have much to say about e.g. the electic models, though I understand they are excellent

1. The must-haves in my opinion are Steinway D (we hate to love them but we love them - and they've really leveled up with v9), the Bosendorfer (for that cinematic bass), the Kawai (for that competition-esque precision playing) and the Steingraeber (for clean percussive playing... I think of it as a German Yamaha)

2. On the round-out-your-collection tier, there's the Bluthner for its uniqueness, the Steinway B for more intimate "salon-style" playing, and the U4 because everyone needs an upright.

Special shout-out to Kremsegg 2 which features the beautiful 1899 Bechstein; it doesn't really fill any gaps left by the two tiers but it just has such amazing textures.

I've not listed the Petrofs even though I really like them, simply because I found that I can get a sound very similar to the 275 with slight tweaks to the Bosendorfer, while still benefitting from the latter's superior bass. And actually, a 66%/33% morph of the Bosendorfer and the Steingraeber gets me very close to the Mistral. (Also I think they are fantastic instruments for jazz and modern play, so it makes sense that you get more out of them than I could)

The Grotian and Bechstein fight in the same lane as the Steingraeber, which for me wins. I had the same journey as you - I liked it more and more, and after playing it for a few months, my fondness is still growing. It's a great one!

I get why you're cold about the Bosendorfer - I needed to tweak the voicing a bit (esp unison width) to make the mids and treble sound more rounded, but that was a worthy tweak to get access to that bass. It depends how highly you value that - I'd say, between the Bosendorfer, the Petrofs and the Steingraeber, you only need two.



So combining my own biases with your preferences, my recommendations by order of confidence are:
1. Get the Steingraeber, you'll keep loving it
2. Get the Steinway Ds; familiarity does breed contempt, I get it, but once you make it your own with your playing, it will sound less stereotypical. Its Pianoteq's flagship pack and has seen so much growth in recent versions, so I think they will keep looking after it well.
3. Maybe get the Steinway B in addition. I look at it not as an alternative but as an extension to the concert grand offerings. There's no intellectual "need" for it but it's just so fun to play; personally I produce more interesting improv on it than on the others.

Thank you very much, daniel_r328, for your thorough and sharp reply. I’m glad we agree on the Steingraeber — I’m now sure I’ll start there (because of course, this is one of those things where you just keep going until you finally have them all, or almost).
After reading you, I tried the Bösendorfer again, and I really enjoyed those basses — no other model has anything like them, that’s true. I think that, and I say this also after reading you, it’s time to move to the PRO version and start experimenting with those subtle yet at the same time drastic changes that everyone talks about here, and which — as with anything programmable — are one of Pianoteq’s wonders: the limitless customization it allows (although I imagine the opposite of what you did isn’t possible: getting something Bösendorfer-like out of a Petrof…).
I also tried the Bechstein 1899, and it really does sound incredible — very modern, hardly historical at all.
Thanks again!

Reply by dv

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Re: Help choosing a piano

jmanrique wrote:

- Bösendorfer: I’ve never really connected with it, sorry—I don’t quite understand why it has so many fans.
Thanks in advance!

Well, if you don't like it, you don't like it, but it has so many fans because it's the first Pianoteq model where they have been able to do all of the following at the same time:

* tame nasalness a bit (not completely, unfortunately, but their best so far)
* produce a seriously robust bass, realistic like most acoustic grands, rather than a wimpy one like before (that required you to overplay the bass to get even a minimal amount of growl)
* keep the rest of the range sound good/reasonable (i.e. you could have improved bass in previous models, but only by completely ruining all the other registers)

So Bosendorfer it is for me and my recommendation to you (of course you do not have to follow other's advice)

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Reply by Bellyman

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Re: Help choosing a piano

I like the Kawai pretty well. It's one of the ones I have and occasionally use.  I missed it if anyone else brought it up. I really like the top end on it, actual sustain in the top octave. It's pretty rare to find that in real acoustic pianos so it's kind of a treat, at least for me.

I am one of the ones who likes the Bosendorfer, what can I say.

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Help choosing a piano

daniel_r328 wrote:
dikrek wrote:

How did you tweak the 280VC specifically?

Nothing fancy - I just upped the unison width to 1.3 and increased the piano and mezzo hammer hardnesses a touch. There's probably further improvements I could have found but these cleaned up the mid and treble sufficiently, bringing the sound closer to the Petrofs (I was torn between the Bosi and the Petrofs at the time), so I left it at that

Nice, what preset did you start from?

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Help choosing a piano

daniel_r328 wrote:
dikrek wrote:

How did you tweak the 280VC specifically?

Nothing fancy - I just upped the unison width to 1.3 and increased the piano and mezzo hammer hardnesses a touch. There's probably further improvements I could have found but these cleaned up the mid and treble sufficiently, bringing the sound closer to the Petrofs (I was torn between the Bosi and the Petrofs at the time), so I left it at that

FYI all a good starting place if you want more bass is the sombre presets. Increase hammer hardness a bit, but also increase resonance quite a bit (I set some to 1.3).

Gets a Steinway NY D and the Kawai to very nice levels of bass, but with more body than the 280VC.

Reply by Shibumi

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Re: Help choosing a piano

I compose for film. My personal piano at home is a Sigeru Kawai. The sound and action of my piano is simply magical. I have always been interested in a library somewhat close to my piano to no avail. I bought Pianoteq in an effort to try and replicate the sound of my piano - but failed. I accepted the fact that getting close would have to suffice.

What I found was Pianoteq offers good options and the ability to tweak its instruments, which is invaluable to composers for one reason - the best piano for the job has more to do with the job than the piano. Additionally, each instrument must sit in your mix with reverb, equalizers, and other plugin goodies, so the sound of your instrument is not an exact science. However, being able to get it 3 feet from the hole is pretty important. That’s where Pianoteq excels.

I ended up with most pianos here to acquire a specific tone set based on project demands. Each is quite affordable and I’ve used them all on different projects. Darker themes cause me to bring out the Petrof’s and Steinways - mainly Hamburg. Jazzier stuff means calling on a Steinway (Hamburg - tweaked), Blüthner, or Bosendorfer. I’ve not fallen in love with the Shigeru yet; it still needs some tweaking. The Bosendorfer sounds a bit sterile to me, but others I know love it and can do magic with it. The Bechstein is my favorite sounding live piano, but can be difficult to fit into some cinematic scores because of its strong presence.

In my world, each piece tends to call for a specific instrument treatment. One size never fits all and your selection choice will differ from mine. That said, having all of these models available for design is a solid strategy. I’m not sure this helps much, but considering your applications and the instrument they call for may make your decision easier.

Last edited by Shibumi (Today 01:10)

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

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Re: Help choosing a piano

Shibumi wrote:

I would love to see a Yamaha in there someday to complete the collection.

You mean other than Pianoteq's YC5? (a model based on the C5 6'7" (200cm) conservatory grand piano)?

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (Yesterday 01:24)
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Reply by Shibumi

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Re: Help choosing a piano

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Shibumi wrote:

I would love to see a Yamaha in there someday to complete the collection.

You mean other than Pianoteq's YC5? (a model based on the C5 6'7" (200cm) conservatory grand piano)?

Wasn’t aware of that! Just bought it.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Last edited by Shibumi (Yesterday 01:37)