Topic by Bellyman

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Topic: Pianoteq crashing...

Strange stuff going on with Pianoteq.

I played the demo for a while before finally buying and didn't have any issues with that. But after downloading, I've had multiple times when it crashed.

I know what happens when I play too many notes fast and close together (intentionally) and the processor takes a few seconds of time out. It'll go silent for a second or two and come back and play normally. I've never had it do that in normal play but I did want to know what it would do, how many notes it would take, that kind of thing. That's not what this post is about.

During normal play, I can play for a bit, probably several minutes, and as I get to passages where I'm playing harder (higher velocities), I'll start to notice a quick "static" type sound every so often. And I also noticed that when I hit a "loud" chord, the notes would seem to be way more detuned than when played softly. Mmmkay, not a huge deal. But then...

But then all of the sudden, it'll crash. Volume will be reduced by about 1/2, the pitch will drop about 3 semitones, and it will sound as though the "condition" slider has been quickly moved from "mint" to it's worst position, all the way to the right, basically so bad that it's unplayable. But this is a condition that it does not recover from. I have tried changing pianos and messing with settings while Pianoteq is running but nothing really changes the sound much. I have to then shut Pianoteq down and restart it at which time it plays normally again. Rinse, repeat.

I've tried to mentally think of why it would do that. One thing I did not do, I did not remove the trial version before downloading/installing the full version, I just loaded/installed the new. Not sure if that would make any difference. I've also not tried to load/install it onto any other computers to see whether they would run it any better. I've also not figured out if something else would be running in the background causing glitches of some kind leading to the crash.

If by chance it sounds like a familiar set of circumstances where, "Oh, yeah, so-n-so had that problem, they did x and it fixed it right up" comes to mind, feel free to share.

The present computer is running Windows 10. It has an i5-4590 processor which should be running around 3.3GHz. I have 16GB of RAM installed. 64 bit operating system. Kinda seemed like it would be adequate, and when it works, Pianoteq sounds amazing. I just don't trust it at this point. One of the things on my wish list is a computer that is dedicated just to Pianoteq, and I'm also open to what that might be. That wasn't my direct question in this post but it may be related. (?)

Thanks!

Last edited by Bellyman (01-12-2024 03:59)

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

Wow, bizzarre crash routine - from the notes bending on a heavy chord, to going quiet etc.. have never had that occur on PC.. so it's kind of grabbing my attention - like maybe because it's like describing putting a sound card in a toaster or something, rather than a simple electrical A + B = crash

Your PC specs seem sufficient, if not pretty good for normal behaviours of the product.

The thing missing in the detail (or maybe I've missed it - a storm/blackout happened) provided is about the sound card, or external audio device if you use one? (may help a lot!)

If you are just using Windows audio, you could get ASIO4all - which is a technical thing to help your machine 'run audio' better.

If instead you have a reasonable outboard audio device, it may have its own ASIO pack to install. (kind of like audio drivers/wrappers for better audio quality).

Definitley - if making music on PC with Win, using good virtual instruments, if you don't have an external audio unit it's worth installing ASIO4all.

I'm no deep expert on it - but, ASIO4all has been a popular (FREE btw) way to do audio in Win without 'needing' an external device for audio. It's OK - it's at times been my choice at home - because, it works fine, has a reasonable control pane - and 'can be' a better control pane than some audio units used to give consumers.

These days, I'd just recommend putting an eye on getting an external audio device - not only because, even the cheap ones are way better than some expensive ones a decade back, they can free up your computer's CPU too.. meaning, maybe you could be more generous with your 'polyphony' setting or choosing a preferred buffer size (for lower latency if you desire that) - and so on.

That's all just presuming though... you may already have an external unit, your ASIO stuff installed etc.. but hope that helps - I can't think of anything specific that would have given me those symptoms tbh. But - post back - if you have more info to help with this. Cheers!


[Edit to add this little baby: Link to ASIO4all online getting started page]

[Edit #2, to add this too two was a racehorse, 11 was one too, 11 won one race one day, 22112: Link to contact Modartt support

Last edited by Qexl (01-12-2024 08:09)
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Reply by Bellyman

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

Qexl wrote:

...
The thing missing in the detail (or maybe I've missed it - a storm/blackout happened) provided is about the sound card, or external audio device if you use one? (may help a lot!)
...

I'm not sure if it would be helpful or not...

Basically, the hookup is super simple. Pianoteq is running on a PC, as described. It is connected with a single USB cable to my Roland RD-2000. Signal goes both ways. Midi from the RD-2000 goes to Pianoteq, audio back to the RD-2000 and out the audio outputs of the RD-2000 to small sound system.

The PC is an old business model, I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a dedicated sound card.

It would be interesting if it were a driver issue to have a "crash" like that. (I'm not sure if "crash" is the right word, I tried to describe it as best I could.) When it plays, it functions. But when it reaches that "crash" point, it just falls off a cliff. (LOL! And at that point, it sounds like an old piano that fell off a cliff.)

I'm sure I'll get it figured out. But I figured I'd at least run it past the group here. And thanks for the suggestions!

Reply by DEZ

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

Bellyman wrote:

Basically, the hookup is super simple. Pianoteq is running on a PC, as described. It is connected with a single USB cable to my Roland RD-2000. Signal goes both ways. Midi from the RD-2000 goes to Pianoteq, audio back to the RD-2000 and out the audio outputs of the RD-2000 to small sound system.

Sounds ideal - but that's a lot of data running up and down the usb cable...

Have you checked that:

  1. local control is off - you don't want your keys triggering both PianoTeq and the internal sound generator

  2. Audio Out is OFF for the USB cable

  3. No MIDI messages are being echoed down the USB back to the Roland

It's best to keep the signal flows as uncluttered as possible. An other factor to consider is the audio output from Pianoteq - reduce it to 44.1 Hz, 16-bit as a start and see how that goes.

Hope you get it sorted?


DEZ

Reply by Bellyman

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

DEZ wrote:
Bellyman wrote:

Basically, the hookup is super simple. Pianoteq is running on a PC, as described. It is connected with a single USB cable to my Roland RD-2000. Signal goes both ways. Midi from the RD-2000 goes to Pianoteq, audio back to the RD-2000 and out the audio outputs of the RD-2000 to small sound system.

Sounds ideal - but that's a lot of data running up and down the usb cable...

Have you checked that:

  1. local control is off - you don't want your keys triggering both PianoTeq and the internal sound generator

  2. Audio Out is OFF for the USB cable

  3. No MIDI messages are being echoed down the USB back to the Roland

It's best to keep the signal flows as uncluttered as possible. An other factor to consider is the audio output from Pianoteq - reduce it to 44.1 Hz, 16-bit as a start and see how that goes.

Hope you get it sorted?


DEZ

Thank you for the suggestions!  I will definitely go poking around. Unfortunately, a little limited on time... several gigs and family stuff, too. But I will definitely update if I have any news.

Last edited by Bellyman (01-12-2024 17:32)

Reply by vorpal

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

Short reply: I had the same issues with my paid version of Pianoteq, but in my case it was laptop audio driver issues that I eventually fixed.

Long reply:

I had digital static and program crashes with my paid version of Pianoteq Pro but in my case, it was because of changing audio drivers to try and get more output through my headphones from the laptop

I have the ASIO4All driver installed (download here: https://asio4all.org/) It's the only driver that outputs with low latency in my system that makes Pianoteq playable. Normally enable the 2nd output in the Realtek section of the ASIO control panel for headphone output. This is how I was running the Pianoteq Demo and it was fine, but too quiet for output. I would finish a session and wonder 'why are my arms so tired' when I realized I was bashing the keys to get mf - ff sound levels. Spent a couple days playing with the Realtek driver, Microsoft drivers and some third party volume enhancement add-ons, no luck. So decided a physical headphone pre-amp was needed.

Went and bought an IFI Uno headphone preamp: https://ifi-audio.com/products/uno/?srs...C6kmLfjuom


Got it installed and switched the ASIO driver to output to the IFI setup. However a few minutes into playing it didn't like this to the point where it would cause the static stuttering that Bellyman was hearing and eventually crashed Pianoteq with a driver error. I disabled the ASIO driver tried the IFI preamp on its own through the Pianoteq settings, but there was too much latency and it also would also eventually crash the program.

So I found that the IFI Uno was using a USB A from the computer to USB C on the unit for it's audio and power connection. My laptop has a USB C port and I had a USB C cable so I changed it and everything worked! Re-enabled the ASIO driver and it's working through the IFI driver and I can up the volume with no stuttering or program crashing. The problem was something to do with the USB-A connection to the IFI... it would disconnect after a few seconds which was causing the driver errors. USB C connection fixed this.

May not be Bellyman's issue but I would have a careful look at the audio driver section and ensure this isn't the problem.

Last edited by vorpal (01-12-2024 18:24)
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Reply by Bellyman

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

vorpal wrote:

Short reply: I had the same issues with my paid version of Pianoteq, but in my case it was laptop audio driver issues that I eventually fixed.

Long reply:

I had digital static and program crashes with my paid version of Pianoteq Pro but in my case, it was because of changing audio drivers to try and get more output through my headphones from the laptop

I have the ASIO4All driver installed (download here: https://asio4all.org/) It's the only driver that outputs with low latency in my system that makes Pianoteq playable. Normally enable the 2nd output in the Realtek section of the ASIO control panel for headphone output. This is how I was running the Pianoteq Demo and it was fine, but too quiet for output. I would finish a session and wonder 'why are my arms so tired' when I realized I was bashing the keys to get mf - ff sound levels. Spent a couple days playing with the Realtek driver, Microsoft drivers and some third party volume enhancement add-ons, no luck. So decided a physical headphone pre-amp was needed.

Went and bought an IFI Uno headphone preamp: https://ifi-audio.com/products/uno/?srs...C6kmLfjuom


Got it installed and switched the ASIO driver to output to the IFI setup. However a few minutes into playing it didn't like this to the point where it would cause the static stuttering that Bellyman was hearing and eventually crashed Pianoteq with a driver error. I disabled the ASIO driver tried the IFI preamp on its own through the Pianoteq settings, but there was too much latency and it also would also eventually crash the program.

So I found that the IFI Uno was using a USB A from the computer to USB C on the unit for it's audio and power connection. My laptop has a USB C port and I had a USB C cable so I changed it and everything worked! Re-enabled the ASIO driver and it's working through the IFI driver and I can up the volume with no stuttering or program crashing. The problem was something to do with the USB-A connection to the IFI... it would disconnect after a few seconds which was causing the driver errors. USB C connection fixed this.

May not be Bellyman's issue but I would have a careful look at the audio driver section and ensure this isn't the problem.

Thanks for the thoughts!

I've been messin' with the settings just a bit and making sure of the signal paths being clean. I've been playing the thing several hours today and not a single hickup. (?)  Did I do something by accident that corrected it? Time will tell. I actually have it set to the maximum settings, haven't cut down on anything.

I figure if there's still a problem, it will show up again. Could have been an ID-10T error...     LOL!!

Reply by vorpal

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Re: Pianoteq crashing...

Bellyman wrote:

Did I do something by accident that corrected it?

Have you tried turning it off and back on again?

1929 Baldwin C 6'3" grand with ProRecord module
Pianoteq Pro 8.4 iPad Mini + USB Cable

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