Topic by Cifer

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Topic: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

Hello everyone,

I will likely buy either the Kawai ES-120 or the FP-30X as a cheap midi controller. I will compare both actions over the next few months, and that will be my main deciding factor. However, I do have one more concern beyond that:

The FP-30X is known to send very uniform midi signals for all keys and have a great velocity curve for Pianoteq. How good in comparison does the Kawai do in both regards? Do we have reliable data, or at least anecdotal evidence?

I haven't found anything so far, but I haven't had much time to look around.

Thanks a lot!

Reply by BlueFish42

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

Just curious, is there any reason you prefer the FP-30X to the FP-10?  They have the same action, and same Midi output, as far as I know.

Reply by Cifer

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

BlueFish42 wrote:

Just curious, is there any reason you prefer the FP-30X to the FP-10?  They have the same action, and same Midi output, as far as I know.

FP-10 doesn't support continuous pedals. You need to connect a continuous pedal directly to your PC using a special adapter only made by a few smaller companies if you want to use a continuous pedaling. I've not completely ruled out the FP-10, but having to rely on a piece of hardware that's not widespread for your device to function fully seems kind of annoying.

Reply by BlueFish42

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

Cifer wrote:
BlueFish42 wrote:

Just curious, is there any reason you prefer the FP-30X to the FP-10?  They have the same action, and same Midi output, as far as I know.

FP-10 doesn't support continuous pedals. You need to connect a continuous pedal directly to your PC using a special adapter only made by a few smaller companies if you want to use a continuous pedaling. I've not completely ruled out the FP-10, but having to rely on a piece of hardware that's not widespread for your device to function fully seems kind of annoying.

Thanks, that's interesting and I didn't know that.  I know Pianoteq supports continuous pedals, but the FP-10, which I have, only gives three levels with the DP-10 pedal.  With that same pedal, I guess the FP-30x gives all 128 levels.  I bought a 1/4" to USB adapter to see if I can connect the pedal directly to my computer.

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

Cifer wrote:

Hello everyone,

I will likely buy either the Kawai ES-120 or the FP-30X as a cheap midi controller. I will compare both actions over the next few months, and that will be my main deciding factor. However, I do have one more concern beyond that:

The FP-30X is known to send very uniform midi signals for all keys and have a great velocity curve for Pianoteq. How good in comparison does the Kawai do in both regards? Do we have reliable data, or at least anecdotal evidence?

I haven't found anything so far, but I haven't had much time to look around.

Thanks a lot!

  The PH4 action is better in term of midi output but the ES120 is lighter ( too light for me) so it is hard to tell which one will work best for you . Based on pure technical specs , the PH4 action is better and used to be one of the best Roland before the PHA50 . The ES120 action is an evolution of the ES110 action which was made for entry level Kawai DP but turned out to be quite popular , but specs cant tell you if you are going to like or not a specific piano action . Personally I would chose the FP30x , but it’s only because of my personal preferences.

Reply by Oztack

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

The PH4 action is better in term of midi output but the ES120 is lighter ( too light for me) so it is hard to tell which one will work best for you .

An important point. I have the Roland FP-30 (not the 'X') with the PH4 action. It is a decent weighted action but still noticeably lighter than my Yamaha C2X grand. It seems the ES1230 is lighter still. If you are moving between an acoustic and a keyboard you may want to see if the difference will be relevant to you too.

Reply by BlueFish42

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

BlueFish42 wrote:
Cifer wrote:
BlueFish42 wrote:

Just curious, is there any reason you prefer the FP-30X to the FP-10?  They have the same action, and same Midi output, as far as I know.

FP-10 doesn't support continuous pedals. You need to connect a continuous pedal directly to your PC using a special adapter only made by a few smaller companies if you want to use a continuous pedaling. I've not completely ruled out the FP-10, but having to rely on a piece of hardware that's not widespread for your device to function fully seems kind of annoying.

Thanks, that's interesting and I didn't know that.  I know Pianoteq supports continuous pedals, but the FP-10, which I have, only gives three levels with the DP-10 pedal.  With that same pedal, I guess the FP-30x gives all 128 levels.  I bought a 1/4" to USB adapter to see if I can connect the pedal directly to my computer.

I ended up finding an adapter that does the trick, but I can confirm that they are difficult to find and made by few companies.  Only found one option, but it's reasonably priced and it works.  I connected my dp-10 pedal to the adapter, and the adapter to the computer, and it gives 128 sustain pedal levels to pianoteq now.  The adapter has two pedal inputs, so I connected my original on/off FP-10 pedal to the other input, and set that to be the soft pedal.  I was surprised at how little the volume differs with the soft pedal down.  I guess the timbre changes too, which might be more to the point.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZ87CVJ7?ps...ct_details

Reply by joannchr

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Re: kawai ES-120 midi signal uniformity and velocity curve compared to Ro

BlueFish42 wrote:
BlueFish42 wrote:
Cifer wrote:

FP-10 doesn't support continuous pedals. You need to connect a continuous pedal directly to your PC using a special adapter only made by a few smaller companies if you want to use a continuous pedaling. I've not completely ruled out the FP-10, but having to rely on a piece of hardware that's not widespread for your device to function fully seems kind of annoying.

Thanks, that's interesting and I didn't know that.  I know Pianoteq supports continuous pedals, but the FP-10, which I have, only gives three levels with the DP-10 pedal.  With that same pedal, I guess the FP-30x gives all 128 levels.  I bought a 1/4" to USB adapter to see if I can connect the pedal directly to my computer.

I ended up finding an adapter that does the trick, but I can confirm that they are difficult to find and made by few companies.  Only found one option, but it's reasonably priced and it works.  I connected my dp-10 pedal to the adapter, and the adapter to the computer, and it gives 128 sustain pedal levels to pianoteq now.  The adapter has two pedal inputs, so I connected my original on/off FP-10 pedal to the other input, and set that to be the soft pedal.  I was surprised at how little the volume differs with the soft pedal down.  I guess the timbre changes too, which might be more to the point.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZ87CVJ7?ps...ct_details

Good !  If you want to increase the effect of the soft pedal, you can do so by adjusting the value in the Voicing menu . By default, the value is set at 0.30 . But this represent the effect that you get on many grand pianos, the effect is subtle and as you say, the primary goal of these pedal is to affect the tone.