Topic: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

I just bought an M Audio Keystation 88 M3 controller. It has two 1/4” inputs on the back which are expression and sustain. I’d like to buy a three pedal unit to make full use of Pianoteq capabilities. Can anyone help me out with what to buy and how to set it up please? Many thanks.

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

The Roland RPU-3 would probably work.  It has a simple 1/4" output for each pedal so it acts like three separate pedals that are just physically combined into a single unit.  Most other triple pedals either use some kind of proprietary DIN connector or they might have a combination such as sustain on one 1/4" connector and the other two pedals combined on another connector.  There can be differences such as polarity and pedals that use optical sensors and require some power versus ones that just use variable resistance, but often a modern keyboard will be fairly compatible with different sustain and expression pedals as long as they use a 1/4" connector.

Obviously if your keyboard only supports connecting two pedals then you'd only be able to connect two of the three pedals through your keyboard.  However since you're using Pianoteq you don't actually have to plug your pedal(s) directly into your keyboard.  I use the above mentioned Roland pedal with a MIDI Expression Quattro and Pianoteq without connecting the pedal to my Kawai VPC1 keyboard (since it isn't compatible).  As long as Pianoteq can see a MIDI device sending messages from your pedals, it doesn't have to be the same MIDI device as your keyboard sending note on/off events.

Last edited by kanefsky (14-07-2023 02:06)

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

kanefsky wrote:

The Roland RPU-3 would probably work.  It has a simple 1/4" output for each pedal so it acts like three separate pedals that are just physically combined into a single unit.  Most other triple pedals either use some kind of proprietary DIN connector or they might have a combination such as sustain on one 1/4" connector and the other two pedals combined on another connector.  There can be differences such as polarity and pedals that use optical sensors and require some power versus ones that just use variable resistance, but often a modern keyboard will be fairly compatible with different sustain and expression pedals as long as they use a 1/4" connector.

Obviously if your keyboard only supports connecting two pedals then you'd only be able to connect two of the three pedals through your keyboard.  However since you're using Pianoteq you don't actually have to plug your pedal(s) directly into your keyboard.  I use the above mentioned Roland pedal with a MIDI Expression Quattro and Pianoteq without connecting the pedal to my Kawai VPC1 keyboard (since it isn't compatible).  As long as Pianoteq can see a MIDI device sending messages from your pedals, it doesn't have to be the same MIDI device as your keyboard sending note on/off events.

I use the Roland triple pedal with audiofront three socket version. Works perfectly. I get all 127 velocity values. Hope this helps,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

sigasa wrote:
kanefsky wrote:

The Roland RPU-3 would probably work.  It has a simple 1/4" output for each pedal so it acts like three separate pedals that are just physically combined into a single unit.  Most other triple pedals either use some kind of proprietary DIN connector or they might have a combination such as sustain on one 1/4" connector and the other two pedals combined on another connector.  There can be differences such as polarity and pedals that use optical sensors and require some power versus ones that just use variable resistance, but often a modern keyboard will be fairly compatible with different sustain and expression pedals as long as they use a 1/4" connector.

Obviously if your keyboard only supports connecting two pedals then you'd only be able to connect two of the three pedals through your keyboard.  However since you're using Pianoteq you don't actually have to plug your pedal(s) directly into your keyboard.  I use the above mentioned Roland pedal with a MIDI Expression Quattro and Pianoteq without connecting the pedal to my Kawai VPC1 keyboard (since it isn't compatible).  As long as Pianoteq can see a MIDI device sending messages from your pedals, it doesn't have to be the same MIDI device as your keyboard sending note on/off events.

Hi and thanks for the replies. I actually remembered that I already owned the Audio Front Quattro. I have hooked the Roland pedal up to the Quattro but am struggling to get it to work. Should I be using the Audio Front software to set the three pedals, or can I simply use midi learn? Any further help/suggestions would be much appreciated.
I use the Roland triple pedal with audiofront three socket version. Works perfectly. I get all 127 velocity values. Hope this helps,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Oh, this forum is a bit confusing. I posted a reply and asked for futher help, but it has been incorporated into another posting. If anyone can see it ok, I would like more help please> Cheers.

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Bigalminal wrote:

Oh, this forum is a bit confusing. I posted a reply and asked for futher help, but it has been incorporated into another posting. If anyone can see it ok, I would like more help please> Cheers.

Yes, you do need the audiofront software. Just download it from the audiofront website. You can use it to set the pedals up the way you want.

Warmest regards,

Chris

https://www.audiofront.net/downloads.php

Last edited by sigasa (19-07-2023 13:51)

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Hi Chris and thanks. I tried mapping the pedals in the software but they would not hold. Is there a trick somewhere that I may have missed?

sigasa wrote:
Bigalminal wrote:

Oh, this forum is a bit confusing. I posted a reply and asked for futher help, but it has been incorporated into another posting. If anyone can see it ok, I would like more help please> Cheers.

Yes, you do need the audiofront software. Just download it from the audiofront website. You can use it to set the pedals up the way you want.

Warmest regards,

Chris

https://www.audiofront.net/downloads.php

Last edited by Bigalminal (19-07-2023 21:24)

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

audiofront has very good support, including their forums. I'd suggest you ask over there

Bigalminal wrote:

Hi Chris and thanks. I tried mapping the pedals in the software but they would not hold. Is there a trick somewhere that I may have missed?

sigasa wrote:
Bigalminal wrote:

Oh, this forum is a bit confusing. I posted a reply and asked for futher help, but it has been incorporated into another posting. If anyone can see it ok, I would like more help please> Cheers.

Yes, you do need the audiofront software. Just download it from the audiofront website. You can use it to set the pedals up the way you want.

Warmest regards,

Chris

https://www.audiofront.net/downloads.php

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Bigalminal wrote:

Hi Chris and thanks. I tried mapping the pedals in the software but they would not hold. Is there a trick somewhere that I may have missed?

Are you using the plugin version or standalone?

Standalone vs. Plugin Mode
The MIDI Expression Control application comes in two varieties—a standalone version and also a
plugin version. While both varieties work in pretty much the same way, there is one major
difference between them. When you make changes using the standalone version, your changes
are saved directly to the memory in the device. However, when you make changes using the plugin
version, the settings are saved in the plugin's own memory and not the device.

The full manual is available here if you don't have it already:  https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.pdf

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Ah yes!! I was using the stand alone instead of the plugin. Cheers!

kanefsky wrote:
Bigalminal wrote:

Hi Chris and thanks. I tried mapping the pedals in the software but they would not hold. Is there a trick somewhere that I may have missed?

Are you using the plugin version or standalone?

Standalone vs. Plugin Mode
The MIDI Expression Control application comes in two varieties—a standalone version and also a
plugin version. While both varieties work in pretty much the same way, there is one major
difference between them. When you make changes using the standalone version, your changes
are saved directly to the memory in the device. However, when you make changes using the plugin
version, the settings are saved in the plugin's own memory and not the device.

The full manual is available here if you don't have it already:  https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.pdf

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Bigalminal wrote:

Ah yes!! I was using the stand alone instead of the plugin. Cheers!

I would have guessed it would be the opposite if you were having an issue.  The way I use it is that I ran the standalone software once to configure my pedals and then the settings were stored in the device and I never needed to run the software again.  With the plugin I assume that means you have to keep it running all the time.

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

kanefsky wrote:
Bigalminal wrote:

Ah yes!! I was using the stand alone instead of the plugin. Cheers!

I would have guessed it would be the opposite if you were having an issue.  The way I use it is that I ran the standalone software once to configure my pedals and then the settings were stored in the device and I never needed to run the software again.  With the plugin I assume that means you have to keep it running all the time.

Pleased you've got it sorted Bigalminal,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

I have the pedal working and talking to PianoTeq. Some further advice please. With all the pedal options available, what do you guys use? Left (soft) is fine so I left that as is. I would like to set up 1/2 pedalling as well, but not sure which pedal that one is. Also, PianoTeq defaults to harmonic for the middle pedal but I couldn’t pick up any change in tone. Any more suggestions will be much appreciated.

I also have a stand alone Roland sus pedal that I could use in the fourth Quattro slot, but not sure what I would use it for, or whether it would be useful. Any suggestions for that please? Cheers!

sigasa wrote:
kanefsky wrote:
Bigalminal wrote:

Ah yes!! I was using the stand alone instead of the plugin. Cheers!

I would have guessed it would be the opposite if you were having an issue.  The way I use it is that I ran the standalone software once to configure my pedals and then the settings were stored in the device and I never needed to run the software again.  With the plugin I assume that means you have to keep it running all the time.

Pleased you've got it sorted Bigalminal,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Bigalminal wrote:

I have the pedal working and talking to PianoTeq. Some further advice please. With all the pedal options available, what do you guys use? Left (soft) is fine so I left that as is. I would like to set up 1/2 pedalling as well, but not sure which pedal that one is. Also, PianoTeq defaults to harmonic for the middle pedal but I couldn’t pick up any change in tone. Any more suggestions will be much appreciated.

I also have a stand alone Roland sus pedal that I could use in the fourth Quattro slot, but not sure what I would use it for, or whether it would be useful. Any suggestions for that please? Cheers!

sigasa wrote:
kanefsky wrote:

I would have guessed it would be the opposite if you were having an issue.  The way I use it is that I ran the standalone software once to configure my pedals and then the settings were stored in the device and I never needed to run the software again.  With the plugin I assume that means you have to keep it running all the time.

Pleased you've got it sorted Bigalminal,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Half pedalling is the sustain pedal (right pedal). You can use the velocity curve calibration in Pianoteq to help you with the half pedal setup.

Middle pedal is usually the sustenuto pedal

Left pedal is Una Cords

You could use the Roland DP10 sustain pedal as a page turner???

Hope this helps a bit,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Re: Three pedal unit for M Audio Keystation 88 M3.

Great advice Chris. Many thanks.

sigasa wrote:
Bigalminal wrote:

I have the pedal working and talking to PianoTeq. Some further advice please. With all the pedal options available, what do you guys use? Left (soft) is fine so I left that as is. I would like to set up 1/2 pedalling as well, but not sure which pedal that one is. Also, PianoTeq defaults to harmonic for the middle pedal but I couldn’t pick up any change in tone. Any more suggestions will be much appreciated.

I also have a stand alone Roland sus pedal that I could use in the fourth Quattro slot, but not sure what I would use it for, or whether it would be useful. Any suggestions for that please? Cheers!

sigasa wrote:

Pleased you've got it sorted Bigalminal,

Warmest regards,

Chris

Half pedalling is the sustain pedal (right pedal). You can use the velocity curve calibration in Pianoteq to help you with the half pedal setup.

Middle pedal is usually the sustenuto pedal

Left pedal is Una Cords

You could use the Roland DP10 sustain pedal as a page turner???

Hope this helps a bit,

Warmest regards,

Chris