Topic by Cellomangler

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Topic: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

Forgive if this is already a topic...

MPE support would be great for the guitars - and would also be great with the Steelpans and... dare I say, experimentation with pianos as well.

I've been using MPE for awhile now - recently picked up my 2nd K-Board Pro 4 that I've set up in a dual manual configuration.  Of course there are lots of other MPE controllers available now with more being released all the time.

I can already use my K-Board in all sorts of creative ways with Modartt instruments as the MIDI CC implementation is robust but the per note expression is what makes MPE especially special.

Last edited by Cellomangler (19-06-2023 00:07)
"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

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Reply by miiindbullets

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Re: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

Would love to see full MPE support! You may already be aware, but it does support polyphonic pitch bending, which is especially nice on the guitar. If you click the arrows on the Velocity Curve until you get to "Aftertouch", you can set that curve to something that works well with your controller(s), and bend individual strings up to a semitone.

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Reply by Cellomangler

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Re: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

miiindbullets wrote:

Would love to see full MPE support! You may already be aware, but it does support polyphonic pitch bending, which is especially nice on the guitar. If you click the arrows on the Velocity Curve until you get to "Aftertouch", you can set that curve to something that works well with your controller(s), and bend individual strings up to a semitone.

No I wasn't aware of that.  I'll take another look.  Yes - my K-Board is controlling pitch nicely per note in the X motion (key wiggle) but other parameters are not MPE.  I can assign slide CC74 to Bloom or Cutoff (other parameters also have to be tweaked for the right effect) and I can get some nice expression but it's global and not per note.  I also must have MPE turned off on the K-Board for it to work properly.

Last edited by Cellomangler (20-06-2023 05:31)
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Reply by hesitz

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Re: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

Cellomangler wrote:
miiindbullets wrote:

Would love to see full MPE support! You may already be aware, but it does support polyphonic pitch bending, which is especially nice on the guitar. If you click the arrows on the Velocity Curve until you get to "Aftertouch", you can set that curve to something that works well with your controller(s), and bend individual strings up to a semitone.

No I wasn't aware of that.  I'll take another look.  Yes - my K-Board is controlling pitch nicely per note in the X motion (key wiggle) but other parameters are not MPE.  I can assign slide CC74 to Bloom or Cutoff (other parameters also have to be tweaked for the right effect) and I can get some nice expression but it's global and not per note.  I also must have MPE turned off on the K-Board for it to work properly.

I'm nearly certain I've operated my Linnstrument with Pianoteq sending full MPE, one note per channel.  Polyphonic pitchbend works well.  The problem isn't that Pianoteq doesn't support MPE timbre or aftertouch/expression CC's, it's that in a piano (or guitar) you strike a note and the note then dies off, given the modeling itself there's no way to boost or significantly alter the expression after the initial strike.  So there's limited opportunity for the continuous expression of MPE over the duration of a note.  Modulating pitch bend is good, the rest of it not really very useful.

FWIW, you can see example of a guy using Pianoteq guitar when using his actual guitar to drive MIDI Guitar MPE software, relevant section starts about 6:50 in:
https://youtu.be/kIdKXeowMKg?t=407

Last edited by hesitz (21-06-2023 00:53)

Reply by DeTrop

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Re: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

hesitz wrote:
Cellomangler wrote:
miiindbullets wrote:

Would love to see full MPE support! You may already be aware, but it does support polyphonic pitch bending, which is especially nice on the guitar. If you click the arrows on the Velocity Curve until you get to "Aftertouch", you can set that curve to something that works well with your controller(s), and bend individual strings up to a semitone.

No I wasn't aware of that.  I'll take another look.  Yes - my K-Board is controlling pitch nicely per note in the X motion (key wiggle) but other parameters are not MPE.  I can assign slide CC74 to Bloom or Cutoff (other parameters also have to be tweaked for the right effect) and I can get some nice expression but it's global and not per note.  I also must have MPE turned off on the K-Board for it to work properly.

I'm nearly certain I've operated my Linnstrument with Pianoteq sending full MPE, one note per channel.  Polyphonic pitchbend works well.  The problem isn't that Pianoteq doesn't support MPE timbre or aftertouch/expression CC's, it's that in a piano (or guitar) you strike a note and the note then dies off, given the modeling itself there's no way to boost or significantly alter the expression after the initial strike.  So there's limited opportunity for the continuous expression of MPE over the duration of a note.  Modulating pitch bend is good, the rest of it not really very useful.

FWIW, you can see example of a guy using Pianoteq guitar when using his actual guitar to drive MIDI Guitar MPE software, relevant section starts about 6:50 in:
https://youtu.be/kIdKXeowMKg?t=407

1. It would be useful for modulating Pianoteq's built-in effects (including EQ) on a per-voice basis, expanding the range of expression further beyond basic realism.

2. Other physical modelling synths use Slide for things like position. Even if it does not continue to affect the sound after the note is struck, it is still extremely useful for expressive playing. In Standard slide could be mapped to morphing or different layers, and in Pro it could be mapped to per-note physical parameters.

3. Of course it would be even better if future versions of Pianoteq Pro allowed for modulation of physical modeling parameters over the duration of a single note on a per-voice basis.

Last edited by DeTrop (12-01-2024 19:34)

Reply by NathanShirley

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Re: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

DeTrop wrote:

3. Of course it would be even better if future versions of Pianoteq Pro allowed for modulation of physical modeling parameters over the duration of a single note on a per-voice basis.

This would be fantastic.

~ Nathan Shirley

https://www.NathanShirley.com

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Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: MPE implementation - particularly for the guitar instruments

I think those features should be in all three versions to a certain extent, not just Pro. MPE is already a bit of a niche interest.

MPE should become more mainstream. At least for 2024 we are seeing more regular polyphonic aftertouch finally available with useful keyboards.
More exploiting of both would be great.