Topic: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

Hi,
I've been reading about requests to add autopedal (or bass coupler) function to Organteq, and that would be awesome (I use it a lot on my Viscount Cantorum Duo keyboard because I'm not a real organ player), but I think a much more powerful and versatile feature would be the possibility to set a MIDI velocity threshold to each individual keyboard in the keyboard mapping view so that, for instance, you could trigger the notes on the virtual pedalboard just by hitting the keys harder (with a midi controller that supports velocity, of course).
Or triggering the notes in the Recit/Positif only, when you play very soft.
That feature would make Organteq very powerful even with only one piano keyboard as a controller.

I'm new to Orgateq, is that already possible someway?

Thanks in advance

Last edited by Langelo (14-06-2023 11:53)

Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

Langelo wrote:

Hi,
I've been reading about requests to add autopedal (or bass coupler) function to Organteq, and that would be awesome (I use it a lot on my Viscount Cantorum Duo keyboard because I'm not a real organ player), but I think a much more powerful and versatile feature would be the possibility to set a MIDI velocity threshold to each individual keyboard in the keyboard mapping view so that, for instance, you could trigger the notes on the virtual pedalboard just by hitting the keys harder (with a midi controller that supports velocity, of course). Interesting idea!
Or triggering the notes in the Recit/Positif only, when you play very soft. This might be confusing as normally when you play soft you expect less noise - triggering more stops from other manuals could take some time getting used to... but still an interesting proposal.
That feature would make Organteq very powerful even with only one piano keyboard as a controller.

I'm new to Orgateq, is that already possible someway? Not on Organteq - but have a look at MIDI-OX (free) or Bome MIDI Translator Pro.

Thanks in advance

By using a third-party midi filter such as those mentioned above - you can filter incomming note velocities to do whatever you wish. The software sits between your controller and OrganTeq - a solution already available to you.

Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

DEZ wrote:
Langelo wrote:

...
I'm new to Orgateq, is that already possible someway? Not on Organteq - but have a look at MIDI-OX (free) or Bome MIDI Translator Pro.

Thanks in advance

By using a third-party midi filter such as those mentioned above - you can filter incomming note velocities to do whatever you wish. The software sits between your controller and OrganTeq - a solution already available to you.

Thank You, DEZ.
I'm testing a solution like the one you are proposing, using Qmidiroute and Jack on Linux.
Unfortunately Qmidiroute doesn't distinguish note-on events from note-off events.
For instance I tried adding a rule that sends all the notes with a velocity less than 20 to the midi channel of the Récit keyboard, from 21 to 90 to the midi channel of the Grand Orgue, and from 91 to 127 to the Pédale, and it could work, but then I need to send the note-off events to the right keyboard too, or the keys will get stuck.

I have one midi controller that sends note-off events with a fixed 0 velocity, and I can make it work adding rules that send midi events with 0 velocity to all midi channels, but unfortunately that controller has a bad touch sensitivity, the resulting velocity is very random and hard to control.

My piano keyboard instead has the note-off velocity feature, which is very good for Pianoteq, but that's a problem in this case, because as I said Qmidiroute (the version that I am using with Ubuntu Studio) doesn't allow to filter note-off events.
I will have to find something else (mididings, midish or x42 plugins look promising), or ask the developers of Qmidiroute if it's possible to add that feature.

But still, I think that an integrated solution inside the keyboard mapping of Organteq shouldn't be too hard to implement and would make much easier to use Organteq with a piano controller, making it accessible to more users and allowing to play up to three virtual keyboards with just one piano keyboard.

Besides, if I remember well, Hauptwerk (I used to play it on my old Mac many years ago) had some integrated function like that, that allowed to trigger the virtual pedalboard when hitting the low keys harder.

Thanks

Last edited by Langelo (16-06-2023 14:10)

Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

How is the project progressing?

Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

DEZ wrote:

How is the project progressing?

Here's a working solution using Ardour 6 and the x42 plugins by Robin Gareus. They come preinstalled on my Ubuntu Studio Linux distro.

I created four MIDI tracks and one MIDI bus. I don't know how to embed an external image here, but here's a link to the resulting mixer:
https://imgur.com/a/OMzWUCO

The first track "MIDI Input" is where I select my external MIDI controller (the name may vary) instead of the default "Virtual Keyboard", and where the overall performance is recorded.
The output of this track is sent to the input of the "Récit Filter", "Grand Orgue Filter" and "Pédale Filter"  MIDI tracks.
Then all the outputs from those three filter tracks are combined and sent to the input of the final MIDI Bus containing the Organteq plugin.

Each one of the three filter tracks contains a MIDI Velocity-Range Filter plugin (filtering the notes based on the dynamics) and a MIDI Channel Map plugin (changing the MIDI channel of the passed notes to the same channel of the corresponding virtual keyboard in Organteq).

In my first satisfying test the velocity ranges were 0-40 for the "Récit Filter", 41-127 for the "Grand Orgue Filter", "81-127" for the "Pédale Filter", so that when I play pianissimo only the Récit keyboard gets played, when I play mezzo-forte the Grand Orgue keyboard is played and when I play fortissimo the Pédale keyboard is coupled to the Grand Orgue keyboard.

With this solution the bass notes don't necessarily have to be the lowest in the chords, but as I found out, it's not so easy to play a single note harder in a chord. Arpeggios and counterpoint are easier to control.

I will have to add tracks and filters for other MIDI events, in order to use expression and crescendo pedals, this will take some time and experimenting, but for the moment I'm happy I found a solution to finally have some fun with the virtual pedalboard without the need to buy and learn to play a real pedalboard.

Last edited by Langelo (21-06-2023 07:18)

Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

Sounds like you are having fun!

The pursuit of finger independence has been and continues to be an almost impossibly high mountain to climb for musicians throughout the centuries. They say that Schuman once devised a system to strengthen his fingers which resulted in him damaging himself and throwing away a promising career as a concert pianist - I don't know how true this is.

The key to any physical improvement, I suppose, is slow repeated practice...

You must post something when you're happy with your live performance!

PS - the key to embedding images lies with BBCode - read the page offerings by clicking on the blue word above the Write message box on the right-hand side.

Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

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Re: Feature request : velocity threshold in keyboard MIDI mappings

DEZ wrote:

Sounds like you are having fun!

The pursuit of finger independence has been and continues to be an almost impossibly high mountain to climb for musicians throughout the centuries. They say that Schuman once devised a system to strengthen his fingers which resulted in him damaging himself and throwing away a promising career as a concert pianist - I don't know how true this is.

The key to any physical improvement, I suppose, is slow repeated practice...

You must post something when you're happy with your live performance!

PS - the key to embedding images lies with BBCode - read the page offerings by clicking on the blue word above the Write message box on the right-hand side.

Poor Robert... I guess the natural way to play chords is by using mainly the arm, that's way it's so hard to keep finger independence.

I finally found the right link to the image url, Thanks