Topic: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

i bought the above software because i want to experiment with the overtone series. i can now assign any pitch to any key over several octaves. then i export everything as a scala file to use it in pianoteq.
that's how it was intended. unfortunately, it turns out that pianoteq interprets the reference pitch incorrectly, and the fundamental has a completely different pitch (if i open the same scala file in a suitable software synthesizer, everything is correct.)
and the keyboard division is also strange.
does anyone have any experience with this?

by the way: even though there are still teething problems - i am thrilled with the sound of the overtone series with a pianoteq instrument! a resonance explosion ;-)

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

It would be interesting to hear…

Would you like to post a before and after demo?

Thanks

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

if you are interested, it would be the best way, that i send you the scala-file?
regards
kl

DEZ wrote:

It would be interesting to hear…

Would you like to post a before and after demo?

Thanks

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

klemens wrote:

if you are interested, it would be the best way, that i send you the scala-file?
regards
kl

Hi,

Thanks for offering to send the scala file, but as you said previously it turns out that pianoteq interprets the reference pitch incorrectly, and the fundamental has a completely different pitch, I don't think I'll get the full flavour of a resonance explosion you went on to declare.

Also, others might be interested to hear this "resonance explosion" too. Please, consider uploaded a before and after demo to tantalise our ears!

Happy music exploration


DEZ

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

Pianoteq supports MTS-ESP so there should be no need to use a scala file at all. As to reference pitch, scala files do not have that information. the reference pitch is determined in a .kbm file. You can use one for your reference pitch in Pianoteq, although it's simpler to enter the reference pitch in the Keyboard Mapping section on the Temperament page.

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

I decided to download ODDSOUND MTS-ESP Master...

Using my new favourite DAW (Cubase Pro 12), PianoTeq 8 and Arturia V instruments it is possible to change the temperament / microtuning on the fly...


Here are the before and after demos...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fkh9hss35fwi10/ODDSOUND_01.png?raw=1

Original TET...

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...ND-OFF.mp3

Carlos Super Just (listen to the beautiful 'hum' of CMaj7 and Em7)

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...-ON-II.mp3

Grady Centaur 19

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...ON-III.mp3

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

Partch 43

Remixed (Less piano and added Halion Sonic 7 Micro Olympus Choir)

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...0REMIX.mp3


The Halion Engine doesn't respond directly to MTS-ESP and so it has to be feed pitch bend adjustments which the ODDSOUND Client will do.

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

Further examples of how easy it is to use ODDSOUND MTS-ESP...

In these examples the KIViR A Walter piano was used to 'complement' the chosen piece by Mozart.


Woolhouse 'Optimised' Meantone

[Cents]
0.00, 73.15, 192.33, 311.51, 384.66, 503.84, 576.99, 696.16, 769.32, 888.49, 1007.67, 1080.82, 2000.00

What it sounds like:

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...lhouse.mp3


Werkmeister III (Valotti-Young)

[Cents]
0.00, 87.16, 192.02, 296.87, 384.04, 502.60, 582.31, 696.70, 792.02, 887.33, 1001.73, 1081.44, 1200.00

What it sounds like:

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...-Rohlf.mp3


12 Out of 55 (Jan Heun)

[Cents]
0.00, 87.27, 196.36, 305.45, 392.73, 501.82, 589.09, 698.18, 785.45, 894.55, 1003.64, 1090.91, 1200.00

What it sounds like:

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...5-Heun.mp3

Re: PIANOTEQ with mts-esp tuning software from ODDSOUND

klemens wrote:

then i export everything as a scala file to use it in pianoteq.
that's how it was intended. unfortunately, it turns out that pianoteq interprets the reference pitch incorrectly, and the fundamental has a completely different pitch

First of all, you need to decide whether Pianoteq will be a MTS-ESP client or actually independent from MTS-ESP.

Check for the temperament label right under the standard diapason (left part of Pianoteq main window).

Provided MTS-ESP be correctly initialized (not crashed), when in the same project at the same time, it will be recognizing Pianoteq as a client, whereby the 'MTS-ESP: your scale' sort of label appears in Pianoteq in lieu of the temperament that could have been loaded by means of Pianoteq alone.

So if you want both to end MTS-ESP enslaving Pianoteq and to maintain MTS-ESP Master in the same project at the same time, click to that label and go to the opening menu: "External tuning (MIDI, MTS-ESP) -> Disabled". Just make sure it is disabled if you want Pianoteq to be indipendent from the ODDSound tool, as the "Continuous retuning (pitch-bending)" & "New notes only (no pitch-bending)" options are meant to be used if you want that to drive Pianoteq real-time.

Also, you might want to give the "Import current MTS-ESP tuning" a shot and see how Pianoteq behaves.

Again, you need to decide whether Pianoteq will be a MTS-ESP client or actually independent from MTS-ESP.

1) In the first case, make sure that the diapason value inside Pianoteq is always fixed at standard 440 Hz, otherwise the program will not match. If the problem persists, simply try removing Pianoteq plug-in from the track and undoing that (in order to reload it without losing last settings). That's the trick I figured out, it correctly resets things. They mess up only if you change Pianoteq diapason or, sometimes, as you load DAW projects containing such devices (speaking of the first case, with Pianoteq being a MTS-ESP client).

2) In the second case, Pianoteq will make notes regardless of MTS-ESP. Therefore, you need to load a corresponding .kbm file anyway, as another user has already pointed out, unless you do not care so much. The moment you finish with editing your scale intervals and all your key assignments in MTS-ESP, then you want MTS-ESP also to export both .scl & kbm files, for perfect usage with Pianoteq later on. If you are going to load the .scl file only, in Pianoteq, the first interval of that scale will always start from standard A4 on, meaning that the 'tonic' (1/1) will always be the standard one (= 440 Hz, mapped at MIDI note number 69), no matter what key assignment you conceived, let alone which the reference frequency in MTS-ESP was.

It looks to me that eventually you described the second case, which means that you are currently using MTS-ESP Master as an early-on editor rather than for real-time dynamic microtuning. Let me bring to you the pros and cons that has.

Cons are you will be stuck with one tuning, as well as in need of specific .kbm files (.kbm files should be matching the tone-per-scale number, even if you go for standard reference frequency or no particular mapping, otherwise notes may be filtered, i.e. unmapped).

So, for all that a whole set of new intervals are nicely taking place, their playability will be technically limited, just like the exploration of tonality (whereas the software can go far beyond that).

Pros are that the sound quality is pristine and left untouched, due to Pianoteq not resorting to its MTS implementation which happens to have a bit of drawback. Basically, the sound quality sometimes fall 'below expectations' if you are going to use MTS-ESP for real-time editing, that is, in the 'MTS-ESP enslaving Pianoteq' first case, and regardless of the 'string tension / full rebuild' switch option (which you might want to be looking at when accessing the advanced tuning window with the + button by the way).

But from my own experience, the overall sound quality is undermined only if you set a nonsensical low reference frequency at a nonsensical super low MIDI note in MTS-ESP, play Pianoteq in the mid register, and expect a Steinway piano not to sound like a toy. On the contrary, such a funny thing doesn't seem to happen when independently loading a .kbm file along with a full rebuilt instrument (second case).

That's it. Hopefully made it clear. I've been experimenting with this couple of toys for quite some time now and know that the resonance explosion one can get along with MTS-ESP in the first case, if any, is genuinely superior in that it can be modulated in pretty much unheard ways.