Topic by Zumadale

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Topic: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

My thinking on this is as follows.  The only ULTIMATE piano controller would have to be an actual...for real...piano keybed.  I've heard Renner kicked around quite a bit.

So...for the ultimate playability you'd need a real honest to goodness grand piano keybed with real hammers and all the action parts including dampers, coupled with at least a triple "optical" sensor setup.

Am I wrong??

Last edited by Zumadale (26-02-2023 00:16)
Pianoteq 8 Standard-Chord AI - Android App (displays chords)-Kawai VPC1
Real Samick (Stencil) Parlor Grand (5'6")-Focusrite 6i6 2nd

Reply by Zumadale

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

With a setup like this...one could hire a regular piano tuner/tech to come regulate it every 5 years or so.  If so inclined...learn to regulate it yourself.  At least no one could complain that it doesn't feel like a real piano...because it actually would be "real."

Last edited by Zumadale (26-02-2023 00:14)
Pianoteq 8 Standard-Chord AI - Android App (displays chords)-Kawai VPC1
Real Samick (Stencil) Parlor Grand (5'6")-Focusrite 6i6 2nd

Reply by Antonio M

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

Zumadale wrote:

The only ULTIMATE piano controller would have to be an actual...for real...piano keybed.  I've heard Renner kicked around quite a bit.

So...for the ultimate playability you'd need a real honest to goodness grand piano keybed with real hammers and all the action parts including dampers, coupled with at least a triple "optical" sensor setup.

Am I wrong??

I think you're right. I believe that's what Bechstein told Casio when they were developing the Celvianos (I don't know if all models).
I did tried a couple of Celvianos and I liked then a lot - but I have very little contact with sting pianos for many, many years now.

I think there are several available commercial solutions to do that.

...but... also ...
I like to look forward:
can we do better than 19 century technology? specially without the mechanical constraints of a string piano.
Can we all have the touch of Horowitz if given a "better instrument"?

Reply by Zumadale

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

I've always owned real pianos because digital never felt right to me.

The problem I have with real piano is the need to constantly tune it!!  It gets expensive.  Digital is now good enough to not need a analog piano.

I do have a analog piano keybed I could use if I decided to make my own.  Just don't know enough about installing the optical sensors that would be required.

Pianoteq 8 Standard-Chord AI - Android App (displays chords)-Kawai VPC1
Real Samick (Stencil) Parlor Grand (5'6")-Focusrite 6i6 2nd

Reply by dv

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

Zumadale wrote:

I've always owned real pianos because digital never felt right to me.

The problem I have with real piano is the need to constantly tune it!!  It gets expensive.  Digital is now good enough to not need a analog piano.

I do have a analog piano keybed I could use if I decided to make my own.  Just don't know enough about installing the optical sensors that would be required.

If money is not an issue, a Yamaha N1x or Kawai Novus NV10 is the solution. This means that you will getting the absolutely best digital piano possible today.

A DIY solution can potentially be better, if you are very careful, for example having both hammer and keyboard sensors, and keeping the action part of the dampers (Yamaha does the former, Kawai the latter, nobody does both). There are no commercial options (yet?) for doing this, but you can take inspiration by like people such as https://github.com/gzweigle/DIY-Grand-Digital-Piano and https://github.com/jkominek/piano-conversion perhaps contact them and see what they are doing and if they are willing to collaborate with you.

On this other forum they have a lot of people doing exactly that: https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/745-summ...y-projects

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Reply by Zumadale

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

Money is an issue...otherwise I'd have a Steinway B in the living room and a spare room out back for a piano tuner to live in...lol

I play along with recordings all the time.  When the tuning is off it sucks...even a little bit...it sucks.  Also with pianoteq I can adjust to weird tunings of recordings.

SIDE NOTE...anyone ever figure out how to play along with the recording of Goodbye Girl by David Gates???  Even their LIVE versions are just the recording and lip syncing.  I can't get the tuning right at all for this song.

Last edited by Zumadale (26-02-2023 23:14)
Pianoteq 8 Standard-Chord AI - Android App (displays chords)-Kawai VPC1
Real Samick (Stencil) Parlor Grand (5'6")-Focusrite 6i6 2nd

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

What is the ultimate piano controller for Pianoteq and a combination of other virtual instruments though?

For me it would be the finest 88 keys of graded hammer action (vpc1 or better without the problems people are experiencing), with top quality polyphonic aftertouch, not mono strip. Aftertouch that feels intuitively progressive, not requiring dramatic response curves to work as expected.

It would also have a long high resolution ribbon controller, and if we're going for broke maybe even add in MPE like the ill fated Touchkeys - not instead of the ribbon but as well as. This would be embedded so as not to change the feel of the keys noticeably.

Also at least five foot pedals. One for expression, the others for traditional piano functions.

It should be around £1400-£2K. Certainly not throwaway quality, not priced for the casual musician dipping their toes or the preserve of the richest musicians to ensure quality components to last a good length of time.
The finish could be plain and serviceable and hard-wearing rather than a substantial amount of the product budget going to fancy  wood inlays or lacquer.

Something worth saving up for. Aspirational for average incomes. Not something that can be picked up on a whim, or prohibitively expensive.

Not that I've given it much thought.

Reply by miiindbullets

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Re: Ultimate Digital Piano Controller

Key Fumbler wrote:

What is the ultimate piano controller for Pianoteq and a combination of other virtual instruments though?

For me it would be the finest 88 keys of graded hammer action (vpc1 or better without the problems people are experiencing), with top quality polyphonic aftertouch, not mono strip. Aftertouch that feels intuitively progressive, not requiring dramatic response curves to work as expected.

It would also have a long high resolution ribbon controller, and if we're going for broke maybe even add in MPE like the ill fated Touchkeys - not instead of the ribbon but as well as. This would be embedded so as not to change the feel of the keys noticeably.

Also at least five foot pedals. One for expression, the others for traditional piano functions.

It should be around £1400-£2K. Certainly not throwaway quality, not priced for the casual musician dipping their toes or the preserve of the richest musicians to ensure quality components to last a good length of time.
The finish could be plain and serviceable and hard-wearing rather than a substantial amount of the product budget going to fancy  wood inlays or lacquer.

Something worth saving up for. Aspirational for average incomes. Not something that can be picked up on a whim, or prohibitively expensive.

Not that I've given it much thought.

That would be my dream controller!

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