I have a new (2022) VPC1. After talking to a Kawai technician about this, he confirms that this is a software glitch, not a wonky wooden key.
I only have Stage 8, so I suspect I don't have the ability to go into the adjustments of one key. It makes a sort of shrill crystal sound behind its proper sound.
Thoughts?
Lynn
Which piano model(s) do you notice it on?
Which piano model(s) do you notice it on?
Thanks for replying! I only use NY Steinway model D.
I have a new (2022) VPC1. After talking to a Kawai technician about this, he confirms that this is a software glitch, not a wonky wooden key.
I only have Stage 8, so I suspect I don't have the ability to go into the adjustments of one key. It makes a sort of shrill crystal sound behind its proper sound.
Thoughts?
Lynn
hello Lynn what happens if you use the same preset & parameters with the virtual keyboard of pianoteq ? Do you hear the ´weird’ sound that you . mention ?
EDIT : also, if the issue is velocity related , even though you use the stage edition, you can use the VPC editor which is the software which comes with the VPC1 which allows to fine tune every key of your keyboard individually.
Thanks. I made the offset -4 for that key. It didn't make a difference in the harsh background sound. Any lower and the key gets quieter.
So, this may mean if I had Pianoteq Pro I could adjust more qualities of that key? What about Pianoteq Standard?
Thanks. I made the offset -4 for that key. It didn't make a difference in the harsh background sound. Any lower and the key gets quieter.
So, this may mean if I had Pianoteq Pro I could adjust more qualities of that key? What about Pianoteq Standard?
Standard would let you modify volume, detune, and attack envelope per key. Pro lets you modify every parameter per key. I'll play around with it tonight and see if I can hear what you're hearing.
Is there a particular preset that makes it really stick out, or is it pretty consistent across multiple presets?
Thanks. I made the offset -4 for that key. It didn't make a difference in the harsh background sound. Any lower and the key gets quieter.
So, this may mean if I had Pianoteq Pro I could adjust more qualities of that key? What about Pianoteq Standard?
Pianoteq Pro allows to modify many sound parameters note by note ( unison width, sound duration, spectrum profile) whereby Standard version only allows a few modifs ( attack , tuning)
I have a VPC1 with the standard version and don't have this issue, so this is weird.
One point of clarification, also:
Presets built with PIANOTEQ PRO can be loaded in PIANOTEQ Standard without limitation.
I believe this means that if someone were to fix this with a per-note edit in Pro and upload the FXP, you could load that into Standard, preserving the per-note edits.
Source: https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq#:~:tex...valuation.
Wonder if it's Q-Factor? The higher the Q-factor, the shorter the high frequency duration. I'm just looking at the classical preset, here:
Hammer noise is also highest on F#5 on the NY Steinway D Classical, and it might make it feel a little more punchy, but I'm not sure if that would be the main culprit, especially since it's not that much higher than the surrounding notes.
Those are the only 2 per-note settings that stood out (again, just looking at the classical preset). Happy to check another preset if you're using something else. If you want to upload some MIDI where you notice it, I can render it with some edits to Q-Factor and/or Hammer Noise and you can A/B them before deciding to upgrade.
Happy to share FXPs of course, too, if that does fix it.
EDIT: Just confirmed the Classical preset is the only Modartt preset that has this much of a reduced Q-Factor on the F#5. If you're only using the classical preset, maybe give the NY Steinway D Player Clean a shot and see if you notice it there?
Wonder if it's Q-Factor? The higher the Q-factor, the shorter the high frequency duration. I'm just looking at the classical preset, here:
Hammer noise is also highest on F#5 on the NY Steinway D Classical, and it might make it feel a little more punchy, but I'm not sure if that would be the main culprit, especially since it's not that much higher than the surrounding notes.
Those are the only 2 per-note settings that stood out (again, just looking at the classical preset). Happy to check another preset if you're using something else. If you want to upload some MIDI where you notice it, I can render it with some edits to Q-Factor and/or Hammer Noise and you can A/B them before deciding to upgrade.
Happy to share FXPs of course, too, if that does fix it.
EDIT: Just confirmed the Classical preset is the only Modartt preset that has this much of a reduced Q-Factor on the F#5. If you're only using the classical preset, maybe give the NY Steinway D Player Clean a shot and see if you notice it there?
Thanks so much for your expertise! I tried the easy thing first and switched to Player Clean. No difference.
Where do I upload the midi files? I think the Kawai tech on the phone today was suggesting what you're offering, but it went over my head.
I don't know what 'A/B them' means.
If I want to accept FXPs from you, I'd need to upgrade to Standard, right?
I uploaded the sample: https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...sharp5.mid
Lynn S wrote:Thanks. I made the offset -4 for that key. It didn't make a difference in the harsh background sound. Any lower and the key gets quieter.
So, this may mean if I had Pianoteq Pro I could adjust more qualities of that key? What about Pianoteq Standard?
Pianoteq Pro allows to modify many sound parameters note by note ( unison width, sound duration, spectrum profile) whereby Standard version only allows a few modifs ( attack , tuning)
I have a VPC1 with the standard version and don't have this issue, so this is weird.
It is weird.
Aha, thanks! I just noticed Pianoteq doesn't follow scientific pitch notation in the note editor -- it's an octave behind. So we might all have been testing this on different notes.
Judging from this MIDI file, you're talking about the F# that's one octave + a tritone above middle C? Really interesting. Those overtones almost sound metallic compared to the "woodier" overtones of the surrounding notes. You don't notice this on the Hamburg Steinway D, do you?
Sorry, "A/B them" is just shorthand for comparing piano "A" against piano "B". There's an "A B" button in Pianoteq that can be handy when you're trying to get a preset dialed in against a reference, quickly bounce back and forth between the two, see what settings are different, copy settings from one to the other, etc.
Anyway, I'm still learning to get these things dialed in but took a pass at it. I tweaked the spectrum profile and reduced the resonance on F#5 (the one Pianoteq's note editor calls "Gb4").
Here's your MIDI rendered with the factory NY Steinway D Classical preset:
https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...0F%235.mp3
And here it is rendered with the aforementioned modifications:
https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...0F%235.mp3
Seems like there's still some room for improvement. I suspect an experienced piano tuner would have some good ideas here. There are a few on these forums.
Aha, thanks! I just noticed Pianoteq doesn't follow scientific pitch notation in the note editor -- it's an octave behind. So we might all have been testing this on different notes.
There are unfortunately two notations commonly used around the world: the "English" one where middle C is called C4, and the "German" one where it is called C3. We followed the German one in Pianoteq.
This notation confusion is indeed a real headache. I strongly recommend using the unambiguous MIDI notation: middle C is #60.
Aha, thanks! I just noticed Pianoteq doesn't follow scientific pitch notation in the note editor -- it's an octave behind. So we might all have been testing this on different notes.
Judging from this MIDI file, you're talking about the F# that's one octave + a tritone above middle C? Really interesting. Those overtones almost sound metallic compared to the "woodier" overtones of the surrounding notes. You don't notice this on the Hamburg Steinway D, do you?
Sorry, "A/B them" is just shorthand for comparing piano "A" against piano "B". There's an "A B" button in Pianoteq that can be handy when you're trying to get a preset dialed in against a reference, quickly bounce back and forth between the two, see what settings are different, copy settings from one to the other, etc.
Anyway, I'm still learning to get these things dialed in but took a pass at it. I tweaked the spectrum profile and reduced the resonance on F#5 (the one Pianoteq's note editor calls "Gb4").
Here's your MIDI rendered with the factory NY Steinway D Classical preset:
https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...0F%235.mp3And here it is rendered with the aforementioned modifications:
https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...0F%235.mp3Seems like there's still some room for improvement. I suspect an experienced piano tuner would have some good ideas here. There are a few on these forums.
Thanks so much for this experiment! Listening to the two files, honestly the second one just sounds a bit quieter to me. That's all that happened when I tried turning the volume down a few notches. As I played today it didn't cross my mind. The really helpful thing was your screen shots of Pianoteq windows showing that yellow peak around F#5 (Thank you, Philippe, for the numbering explanation). I'm going to stop thinking of it as a Problem and just accept it as 'punchier' as someone here said.
It's been an education to realize the value of Pro, because if this key were 'fixable', I'd have to do every piano in my collection! None of this is in my comfort zone. I've never really played an acoustic piano, so I can just continue to be very happy.
miiindbullets wrote:Aha, thanks! I just noticed Pianoteq doesn't follow scientific pitch notation in the note editor -- it's an octave behind. So we might all have been testing this on different notes.
There are unfortunately two notations commonly used around the world: the "English" one where middle C is called C4, and the "German" one where it is called C3. We followed the German one in Pianoteq.
This notation confusion is indeed a real headache. I strongly recommend using the unambiguous MIDI notation: middle C is #60.
May I be allowed to hijack the topic and ask one simple question:
When you go with the German System,
why is your (english) B still in english note pattern, and not called H like in the german system?
I am german, and I am quite bothered by the H instead of B in general (hate that we germans got to make it super complicated), but anyways:
Now its even mixed up and some H3 is called B3 in PTQ while it actually is a B4 (english)...
Is there any reason to that why this makes sense,
or would it just be more simple to use the more international system and go with B4 instead of B3/H3 for all notes in the Program,
or at least make it some option in the Settings which notation system is used?
Another benefit:
By that there would not be some A-1 but just some regular A0 for the first Key?
EDIT: Because of that discussion I was curios and tested some 108 Key Layout by some Virtual Keyboard in my Demo of Pianoteq 8 and noticed that the last playable key is C7 (C8 english), so everything above that up to G8 (G9 english) aint available allthough the MIDI input of PTQ recognize the key properly it just plays no sound. Do I need some specific Keyboard in PTQ8 that features 108 Keys, or for some 100 Key Layout, to go beyond?
Thanks