MeDorian wrote:My aim is both a and b examples with just one setup
Hey, cool MeDorian.. definitely do consider twice, how the logic gate flows with the a & b ideals.
I'd be unable to sleep well if I encouraged exotic speaker setups for 'b' but can't encourage enough exotic speaker setups for 'a' Have fun with it - knowing some fundaments should hopefully get your best of both a/b worlds going
Interesting @Gilles! These early quad / surround ideas were fascinating. I experienced some versions using appropriate amps (only a hand-full of times) but missed/forgot the Hafler effect. There was an old Thorn system for sale cheaply which I passed up on some time ago, probably had the right circuit for trying that out [grumble grumble].
Thinking about that kind of thing, a nice hack that should work with all stereo amps is Brian Eno's 3 speaker hack (which relates to his ambient music direction). Just involved plugging in a 3rd speaker (its 2 lead ends into only the red amp connectors) and placing it at rear. Depending on size and rating, that speaker might do something a little like the Hafler setup?
Brian Eno wrote:the third speaker reproduces any sound that is not common to both sides of the stereo - i.e., everything that is not located centrally in the stereo image
Quote from website (there's a helpful diagram there): Ambient 4: On Land - Brian Eno
That lead me to reason back then "Oh, genius, it's kind of using the same already encoded normal stereo signals.. no extra circuit or special amp".. which then later lead me to find out about probably still my favourite stereo mixing mode, Mid/Side processing, which would be cool to see as an output mode in Pianoteq - audio engineers/producer types using Pianoteq as a plugin might mostly find this a pretty solid idea but could also hold some mystique for mainstream consumers too?.
Mid/Side (not quite the same as M/S in mic technique) was in use at Abbey Road (from experimenting with summing stereo - unnervingly simple I suppose but really effective) a long time before Eno's speaker array, and it may be that Eno was not at that time aware of Mid/Side (he said in 1982 "I arrived at this system by accident, and I don't really know why it works.") - all interesting at the time and still today for me and hopefully a little fun for some audiophiles too.
Because the piano can be a pivotal mix issue esp. in multi-instrumental recordings so often (large freq range, stereo width non-determinate etc. can make mixes with other instruments interesting to work on) Mid/Side processing is fantastic to deploy (you can trivially enable it with plugins in a DAW these days - many good consoles had a switch). It just allows a 'centre' and 'sides' during mixing (no trick circuits or extra speakers) and end users hear the benefits on normal stereo, no extras needed for decoding.
If you have a DAW (are interested in recording/mixing) get a plugin with a choice of "mono" "stereo" "Mid Side" monitoring/output.. (Waves has one called "Center" but by itself it's a little spartan perhaps and unless you also get gain staging right, it could disappoint newb users.. but using something like Waves' console emulators.. now you have some real impactful and incredible control, esp. over Mid/Side EQ and levels and so on. I think each of their Abbey Road desks have it - maybe even a lot of their other plugins - thinking about it, probably the F6 EQ which I like allows EQ'ing in Mid/Side mode.. so that's a good tool for Pianoteq users who want to squeeze maximum sonic goodness out of it). But just raising and lowering levels of each the mid by itself and the sides by themselves is helpful to settle a nice stereo image for piano.. adding EQ and more control this way is worth trying if keen.
The extra lengths which can matter when using Mid/Side in mixing, is that you can split a piano track (or any other of course) into 2 - say track 1 is Mid, and track 2 is Sides - then run each through separate FX..
So, with Mid/Side processing, with piano I love that you can keep less reverb on the Mid (like a solid close-ish feel) and put a little more shimmer/sparkle and reverb on the sides (wide stereo, so the sounds like reverb receding like IRL). I push it in terms of contemporary music but I'm sure it's subtly used in classical recording too (not too sure how much so but that might inform some research time for later - I suspect Abbey Road were using this for orchestral as much as pop/rock from the 60s?).
You can do many track splitting tricks without Mid/Side too of course.. but it can make it feel more genuinely 'experiential' - not to say 3D or surround but certainly less 'flat'.
I'd say things like this can often be the 'ear candy' which consumers like to hear but don't know how to do - but it's one of probably thousands of engineering 'seeeecrets'. I wish I could live longer, there really is not enough time in one lifetime to learn and enjoy everything.. damned if I don't try though
And as well of course you can do the reverse trick with Mid/Side, and make the sides heavier and the center light and sparkly.. or just during chorus - or to make space when vocals are in front centre. Every context is a producer's dilemma - and anyone at home with Pianoteq and a PC and a DAW is a producer of their own music and IMO.. it's only a fantastic journey to learn a few real-world ways to bump up our output to a "next level".. so much fun too these days (instead of only being possible in a big studio - it's mind-blowing to older people what's possible now - would hate to be starting out now, and squandering these opportunities to shine up my music).
Anyway in some ways I'd love to keep the tech we have nowadays - but still would also want to get in a time machine and re-start again from back in the 70s
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments) - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors