Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Geekbench 3 64-bit score for...

iMac (21.5-inch Mid 2014)
Intel Core i5-4260U 1400 MHz (2 cores)

Single-Core
2744

Multi-Core
5308

---

iPad Pro
Apple A9X 2238 MHz (2 cores)
(I ran this test myself)

Single-Core
3248

Multi-Core
5498


I don't know exactly how this translates to PianoTEQ running on a high end A9X, but I do know that I run up to 10 of the biggest synths available, through convolution reverb into Cubasis or Garage Band with no problems. I think PianoTEQ could run on an A9X. I also firmly believe, and I'm already seeing it everywhere, that the iPad is the future of mobile music apps in performance and education.

PianoTEQ would be THE premier piano app on iOS. I'm heavily invested in iOS music apps for studio, performance and education. I have no plans to buy a MacBook. I would pay a premium price for PianoTEQ on iOS.

For what it's worth, there you go.

Regards,
Steve Steele
stevesteele.com
Music theorist, composer, Vienna Ensemble Pro templates, YouTube channel (Mains: 2 Mac Pros, Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro, and an iPad Pro.)

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

In the same spirit:
I run the latest version of Pianoteq on a 2009 mac mini, without any problems, ever, for almost 7 years.
It seems to have a geekbench score of less than 1400 (overall).

My experience with this 7 year old entry level machine makes it hard to understand for me:
- why anyone would doubt that pianoteq could run on a modern ipad/iphone,
- why there are so many reported performance problems with modern (windows) machines?

Oh wait, I think I do know the answer to the second question.

Paul

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

pz wrote:

Oh wait, I think I do know the answer to the second question.
Paul

-- Although I'm sure that many people are comfortable and happy with Microsoft Windows, personally, I am grateful that there are alternatives.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (15-06-2016 14:06)
--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

No performance problems with three modern Windows machines here. People like to talk smack about MS all the time.

Hard work and guts!

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

EvilDragon wrote:

No performance problems with three modern Windows machines here. People like to talk smack about MS all the time.


That's true. People are bad-mouthing Microsoft Windows on both the Linux-Audio-Users list right now, and on the forum of my satellite Internet service provider, HughesNet.com (which I don't recommend, if there's any alternative).

I've used Linux for about 20 years now, and Mac OS before that on my own computers, and Windows occasionally on other people's computers. I just never got used to Windows and am more familiar and comfortable with Linux now, although for gamers, I suppose Windows is still the preferred platform (although SteamPowered.com and several other projects make gaming fun on other platforms too).

--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

EvilDragon wrote:

No performance problems with three modern Windows machines here. People like to talk smack about MS all the time.

I worked in IT for awhile and I noticed Windows users fall into one of two categories. Those that have no idea what they're are doing and hence they usually end up wrecking their OS. Then there are those that have put in the time to undestand how to set up and run a pro Windows system (congrats to those users). The latter group is no different than a Mac or Linux power-user.

I have no doubt that on a Windows system that is locked down as a music workstation, that those folks have any trouble running PianoTEQ. But I have never tried PianoTEQ on a Windows system.

Regards,
Steve Steele
stevesteele.com
Music theorist, composer, Vienna Ensemble Pro templates, YouTube channel (Mains: 2 Mac Pros, Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro, and an iPad Pro.)

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Must say I don't have my computer locked down as a music workstation. I browse the Internet, watch movies and listen to music, and whatever else, all on this computer (or the new one that I just built). No issues whatsoever. Just knowing how to use your sh1t.

Last edited by EvilDragon (15-06-2016 18:48)
Hard work and guts!

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

EvilDragon wrote:

Must say I don't have my computer locked down as a music workstation. I browse the Internet, watch movies and listen to music, and whatever else, all on this computer (or the new one that I just built). No issues whatsoever. Just knowing how to use your sh1t.

I'm just referring to users who do know when they're getting attacked in an email, or users who download illegal stuff. 99.999 percent of malware is written for Windows and that's what's happens to people who don't know what they're doing. But that's obvious.

Anyway, doesn't matter to me. I just want to see PianoTEQ on the iPad.

Regards,
Steve Steele
stevesteele.com
Music theorist, composer, Vienna Ensemble Pro templates, YouTube channel (Mains: 2 Mac Pros, Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro, and an iPad Pro.)

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

pz wrote:

- why there are so many reported performance problems with modern (windows) machines?

I'm running it on my outdated 5+ year old hardware and windows 7 64bit, and have seen zero issues with performance. I have maximum polyphony set, 48khz, 32 bits.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

AlexS wrote:
pz wrote:

- why there are so many reported performance problems with modern (windows) machines?

I'm running it on my outdated 5+ year old hardware and windows 7 64bit, and have seen zero issues with performance. I have maximum polyphony set, 48khz, 32 bits.

Sorry I have contributed in sidetracking the discussion; really did not mean to. But the upshot is clear enough, I think. Apart from the more exotic choices, I really would not expect any performance issues with modern computing appliances. Any such issues are far more likely to come from configuration (and for the sake of the topic I will explicitly exclude the choice of OS from that category) than from hardware specs.

Main point being: many of us want an IOS version of pianoteq. If there is a good reason why we can not have that we rather hear it from the company itself.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

nightwatch wrote:

The latter group is no different than a Mac or Linux power-user.

lol Linux power-user compared to Mac users.

The Mac user is a group all by itself. They are people who use a pc simply because Apple has made the OS user-friendly enough for them to cope. Yes, there are Mac users who get into the Unix side of things, and become proficient with the technical aspects, but I imagine they are technical with other things as well, including a Windows pc and even a Linux pc in their arsenal.

Generally, it's the non-technical person that uses iOS (et al), but they do it because they think they don't need to learn the technical aspects of the things they use (a bit of snobbery really, and I used to be like that). They also become self-serving about it, expecting everyone to cater to their choice.

I'm heavily invested in iOS music apps for studio, performance and education.

Self-serving Mac fanatic. Who cares what you're invested in? The world doesn't cater to you simply because you chose iOS, and now want everything the Windows platform has on your precious device. Either buy a Windows device, or write the software yourself. Quit whining about it on forums, throwing a tantrum like a two year old.

The iPad is the future of mobile music apps in performance and education

And don't try to sell me on your nonsense either. You want it to be the future, that's all. There is nothing new, or even inventive about iOS (or any touch screen device for that matter). It's just new to you, that's all.

Modartt (or someone) will get to it when they get to it. Stop demanding it, or trying to persuade with your shallow, ignorant, and baseless arguments and examples. It's not our fault that your device is really an under-powered toy. Trying to validate your choice in platform by (practically) demanding companies like Modartt create useful products for you is arrogant and juvenile.

I was a Mac fanatic for years, but then I grew up, and took the time to learn about the tools I use for my profession (and that's why I switched to Windows). I suggest you do the same. Well, you don't have to switch to Windows, but you would finally have the powerful tools you want. wouldn't you?

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

johnrule wrote:

...Self-serving Mac fanatic. Who cares what you're invested in...

Attack ideas, sure, but there's no need to attack people.
This uncalled for ad hominem attack post has no place on this site and has been reported.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Agree totally.  I used MS products exclusively for 20+ years, dating from 3.1, and have been using IOS based devices for more than 10.  Never saw the need -- or sense -- of belittling those who chose to use either product.

I believe when someone does, it says more about their own set of deficiencies than those of either product line.

At the end of the day, who cares:  it's about the music!

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Back to the original discussion, I've seen plenty of benchmarks showing the latest A9X as fast as Intel CPUs for productivity and internet ... and sometimes gaming (depending on the GPU).

But these applications don't use the same types of CPU instructions that Pianoteq does.  Sound modelling is more in the arena of scientific simulations and analysis.  And just because CPU1 is just as fast as CPU2 doing 1+1 does not mean it's just as fast doing ARCSIN(x) or doing a series of SQL instructions as CPU architectures all have their strengths and weaknesses.  In the past when AMD was still competitive with Intel, every month we'd have new CPUs and new benchmarks highlighting this fact that this was faster as a VM host but that was faster runing a SQL database and so on -- but we're only at the infant stages of smartphone/tablet revolution reporting.

The only A9X benchmark that seems relevant to Pianoteq is this one:

http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/11/ipad_pro_3dmark_ice_storm_unlimited_physics-100629112-orig.png

This is the physics-only portion of a game engine which usually is simulations and modelling of the real world.  And for "these" types of calculations, the A9X lags even behind Bay Trail Atoms.  I have no idea what Intel model numbers mean (and no interest in looking them up) but the Intel Cores stuffed in low-power devices are 2x-3x faster than the A9X in this benchmark.  (Never mind the high-power devices we have in our PCs and laptops.)

Now this is only a single data point.  However, nobody else has yet to publish any benchmark similar that might be relevant to Pianoteq -- like ray-tracing, 3D rendering, fluid dynamics, astronomically modelling, etc.  (These programs might not yet be available -- or the walled-garden makes it hard to compile the existing benchmarks for iOS.)

Last edited by Mossy (17-06-2016 02:04)

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

johnrule wrote:

I was a Mac fanatic for years, but then I grew up, and took the time to learn about the tools I use for my profession (and that's why I switched to Windows). I suggest you do the same. Well, you don't have to switch to Windows, but you would finally have the powerful tools you want. wouldn't you?

Grew up? well from the long post full of stereotypes and strong options I would not have guessed so. Well, good for you that you actually did.

I mean, you grew up, that is great - I mean not moving from being a Mac franatic to being a franatic - that might be a waste of time.

Really wonder why Jordan Rudess, Korg etc. are all so non-grown up and technical-illiterates to use and develop for iOS .... well, maybe we will one day all grow up ...

best

just as a note: most of the time I use Pianoteq on a surface pro ....

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

pz wrote:

In the same spirit:
I run the latest version of Pianoteq on a 2009 mac mini, without any problems, ever, for almost 7 years.
It seems to have a geekbench score of less than 1400 (overall).

My experience with this 7 year old entry level machine makes it hard to understand for me:
- why anyone would doubt that pianoteq could run on a modern ipad/iphone,

This is the very question that will never be answered... Because the answer has more to do with OS/Platform religion than anything else.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

If the A9X is not quite there yet for Pianoteq, then it's close.  If you can use a BayTrail Atom at lower performance settings, you could do the same thing on a fast ARM chip.  (Floating point/simulation benchmarks for A9X put it roughly BayTrail levels for those types of uses.)

The questions are on all the business side.  How many people will pay extra for this?  Apple does not allow alternative billing schemes for AppStore apps so all existing owners would have to buy new copies if they wanted to run it on the iPad.  And if I was Modartt, I'd have to charge full price anyways to pay for the development costs.  For me, I never need to move my Pianoteq installation around to multiple locations so it would not be worth the money -- hence, I'd rather spend money on more instrument packs.  If I was a musician doing gigs every week, it might be worth it -- but then I already would have a thin/touchscreen laptop for half the cost of an iPad.  Which means the target market is mostly those who want virtual piano software on an iPad, don't already own Pianoteq and are willing to use it at lower quality settings.  How many of these folks would click buy on a $150-$200 app versus $20 for the Korg sample-based one?

It's easy to say you'd buy it now but it's a different story when the money actually leaves your bank account.  Perhaps you should ask Modartt to do a KickStarter campaign for an iPad version -- that would prove not only the market exists but also fund the development.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Mossy wrote:

Perhaps you should ask Modartt to do a KickStarter campaign for an iPad version -- that would prove not only the market exists but also fund the development.

How timely!  I was just this morning thinking of this Kickstarter idea as a way forward for passionate iPad customers to help with the  development ROI.  ....Just from my perspective there are bigger fish to fry on the platform (like getting synths like Waldorf Nave etc into AU format on iOS)

But if there were a Kickstarter campaign for Pianoteq AU on iOS...I would absolutely contribute in a meaningful way.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

+1
Me 2

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

+1

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

+1

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

+1

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Mossy wrote:

The only A9X benchmark that seems relevant to Pianoteq is this one:

http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/11/ipad_pro_3dmark_ice_storm_unlimited_physics-100629112-orig.png

This is the physics-only portion of a game engine which usually is simulations and modelling of the real world.  And for "these" types of calculations, the A9X lags even behind Bay Trail Atoms.  I have no idea what Intel model numbers mean (and no interest in looking them up) but the Intel Cores stuffed in low-power devices are 2x-3x faster than the A9X in this benchmark.  (Never mind the high-power devices we have in our PCs and laptops.)

The iPad Pro 2018 has a score of 39,068 in this benchmark

https://benchmarks.ul.com/hardware/tabl...18)+review

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Would love to see Pianoteq on Ipad! Would be incredibly useful for gigs.

Last edited by theinvisibleman (16-02-2019 17:22)

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

+1 !!

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

So if the statement that Painoteq uses the JUCE framework then it should be relatively easy to translate to the ios platform. This is amazing news if true.

My mate used JUCE to program the ios app Spacecraft Granular which is awesome by the way.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

AFAIK they just use JUCE for the GUI part, not for the engine stuff.

Hard work and guts!

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Well I'd be stunned if someone at Pianoteq is not actively pursuing this by now.
The Pianoteq codebase is already modular enough to build for both Mac and Windows. This thread is ongoing for 5+ years. iOS devices are ridiculously powerful now in the year 2019.

For me, a laptop is maddeningly clunky to work alongside a MIDI controller keyboard. It probably will be this way unless you've built an entire studio around your piano setup. An iPad is so much more comfortable and fun to work with. It just sits on top of your MIDI keyboard without getting in the way.

Really, the hard part would be porting the UI to work nice on a touch screen. And maybe the JUCE guys have taken care of that already...

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

I've resolved the problem by using MS Surface.

Hard work and guts!

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Hi,
I understand from reading the posts that this is quite a passionate subject.
If anyone is looking for a relatively cheap and very good (in my opinion) piano for IOS
then please have a look at Ravenscroft 275 (£35.U.K.).
I have the P.C. version and it's every bit as good as my any of the Pianoteq Stage voices.
Chris

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Chris64 wrote:

Hi,
I understand from reading the posts that this is quite a passionate subject.
If anyone is looking for a relatively cheap and very good (in my opinion) piano for IOS
then please have a look at Ravenscroft 275 (£35.U.K.).
I have the P.C. version and it's every bit as good as my any of the Pianoteq Stage voices.
Chris

And watch out for a sale. It sometimes goes half price.

Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

Fleer wrote:
Chris64 wrote:

Hi,
I understand from reading the posts that this is quite a passionate subject.
If anyone is looking for a relatively cheap and very good (in my opinion) piano for IOS
then please have a look at Ravenscroft 275 (£35.U.K.).
I have the P.C. version and it's every bit as good as my any of the Pianoteq Stage voices.
Chris

And watch out for a sale. It sometimes goes half price.

I think it is more like $200 in the USA.

Another proprietary "platform" that is fairly expensive to buy initially with only 4 or 5 instruments available.

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

aandrmusic wrote:
Fleer wrote:
Chris64 wrote:

Hi,
I understand from reading the posts that this is quite a passionate subject.
If anyone is looking for a relatively cheap and very good (in my opinion) piano for IOS
then please have a look at Ravenscroft 275 (£35.U.K.).
I have the P.C. version and it's every bit as good as my any of the Pianoteq Stage voices.
Chris

And watch out for a sale. It sometimes goes half price.

I think it is more like $200 in the USA.

Another proprietary "platform" that is fairly expensive to buy initially with only 4 or 5 instruments available.

The iPad version is $40 or half that at sales.
I got the Mac version too and love it, even though it indeed resides on the UVI platform. The platform workstation itself is nice and free (like Kontakt Player).

Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ...

mmontag wrote:

Well I'd be stunned if someone at Pianoteq is not actively pursuing this by now.
The Pianoteq codebase is already modular enough to build for both Mac and Windows. This thread is ongoing for 5+ years. iOS devices are ridiculously powerful now in the year 2019.

For me, a laptop is maddeningly clunky to work alongside a MIDI controller keyboard. It probably will be this way unless you've built an entire studio around your piano setup. An iPad is so much more comfortable and fun to work with. It just sits on top of your MIDI keyboard without getting in the way.

Really, the hard part would be porting the UI to work nice on a touch screen. And maybe the JUCE guys have taken care of that already...


I don't think the BIG problem is "technical".
Code is code, is code, etc.
Decades ago we had  "binary to source" interpreters/translators to help recover code that we no longer had original source for.
Hackers have exploited that, but Decompile/recompile is not needed here

I think there is great reluctance to joining the "race to the bottom", i.e. Standard PTQ had an entry price of ~$300,
Stage has halved that (Original intro price $99 IIRC)
The Tablet market is at a different price layer.

OK, so the performance is there and at an attractive hardware price, so is the convenience.
I just don't see Modartt wanting to take PTQ to a sub $10 marketplace, though I would probably jump on it.
Pianoteq Pro on a tablet for $50 ?  Sure, gimme that.
.