Has Pianoteq reached its limits? (Page 2 of 2)

Well shoot, I was already to check out this new Pianoteq-killer but, alas, the demo files are not to be found on Myosis.  I might try a little bit of the Phrase Delay plug on Pianoteq.  Arrogance is like a Gulf oil disaster:  not a good way to win customers or friends.  (..doesn't impress the gulls either....)

Took some searching, but I found it:

http://www.box.net/shared/ufcbb2d9kq

PS - this file has an expiry date on my account.

CM:

Actually I have quite a few mp3 and wave files of various demos, etc.

Interesting that it's no longer available on the website.  Maybe he was getting too many negative reactions.  Considering how much work it is to get any sound at all, I was quite impressed.

I don't think it's a piano sound though.

A couple of years ago I DL'd Pianissimo, and frankly Pianissimo was not as good as the "myosis" product as I recall.  Pianissimo was barely a poor toy piano sound.  The mysios sound seems a fair bit like an organ to me.

If it was advertised as something other than a piano, reaction wouldn't likely be nearly as negative - it has possibilities IMO - in fact it's a sound I could use along with piano in an ensemble.

Glenn

I think I am at a point where it has been so long since I sat at a "fer real" Grand Piano that I don't remember what one REALLY sounds and feels like - sad, but true so I might as well admit it.

What I am wondering about this morning is why I would WANT the mechanical noises added back into a synthetic piano - when it has been a goal of builders (of physical pianos) to eliminate or reduce them as much as possible.
These are the limitations of wood, felt, etc and I don't see a need to simulate those shortcomings.   They add nothing to the music, although they may add something to a recording in attempts to convince a listener that the instrument used was "physical".
The player isn't fooled, i.e. I do KNOW that the sounds are produced electronically.   
OK, I know, I know, they can be switched off, but why even bother to include them now that they can be eliminated, whereas in the past builders could only reduce them in their attempts at eliminating them ?

In other words;
Too far, too far already, WAY too far.

Heck, if I want a recording to sound "REAL" I can add background noises of muffled coughs and sneezes from the audience.
What audience ?, you may ask.
The virtual audience of course (-:

I completely agree - this has been discussed with the developers in past threads, and if I recall correctly, both Phillipe and I said that if piano builders could have eliminated these non-musical noises, they would have.

What's so musical about the thunk of a pedal or a key hitting the key bed?  Do the rubbing noises of a piano action really give anyone pleasure?

Glenn

From another angle, if a top tier piano builder used a different material tomorrow that eliminated (not just muffled better) these sounds would we "buy into it" ?
I get enough extraneous sounds from my (also less than perfect) electronic keyboard, they are DIFFERENT to the mechanical sounds from physical pianos, but they are there.
I wouldn't want them "emulated" in the next generation of electronic keyboards.

So, if I have another point it is that the effort that goes into these sounds could probably be better spent.

Steinway tried tried teflon bushings on the pins that hold the keys in place on the key bed.  They're back to felt (the teflon made more noise!!).

Kawai's Millenium action utilizes carbon fibre for many moving parts - better precision in manufacturing and more stable than wood.

In the sixties or seventies, one low end builder tried plywood for the soundboard - it was a dud.

And I'm sure there will be more attempts - but there is resistance to change (it's a human nature thing), that seems to be stronger in the classical music genre - and that's where the really good and very expensive pianos are used.

So I don't hold out much hope that these noises will be eliminated anytime soon.

Glenn

Hm.... in a grand piano it's possible to open up the hole piano just by press the pedal (sustain) fast. When you do that you can hear more than just a "thunk", you can just with this fast press on the pedal get all the strings to sound at ones! Actually, I kind of miss this in pianoteq... In pianoteq you can have the same feeling if you increase "sympathetic resonance" and than play some notes, then the piano will "open up" in a similar way, but on a real grand it's enough to press the pedal fast...

Oh, Glenn, you hit the magic posts number!  Mario should be along to give you a prize!!!

Glenn *Gould* recorded Bach's 2-part inventions on a grand piano that had a broken mechanism such that one of the strings would be struck twice for a given note - I think it may have been a b-flat - instead of the usually sufficient once. In the liner notes to the album he claimed to enjoy the effect. So I would never assume one way or the other about what sounds someone will want coming out of their instrument!