Very good, Key Fumbler!
I must have completely missed this when rereading what I wrote, before posting it early in the morning as I was about to get ready for work.
...And I fancy myself to be a good "morning person."
I guess that self-assessment must be pushing reality a step farther away!
- David
Very good, Key Fumbler!
I must have completely missed this when rereading what I wrote, before posting it early in the morning as I was about to get ready for work.
...And I fancy myself to be a good "morning person."
I guess that self-assessment must be pushing reality a step farther away!
- David
Hopefully I didn't come over as petty as this fellow!
TBH, you can't go wrong with any of these piano brands—in fact if you buy them all it's still cheaper than buying a real grand.
I'd guess the NY Steinways (B&D) are very popular because they are common in music schools and stages...so it's a sound people know—they have nice bright detailed highs and rich lows...and they sound good for all types of piano music—perhaps more in a solo role than blending with a combo.
But since you can try them all out for free, I'd play around with them. In fact, it may be that you prefer the Steinway but with a totally different setup (like the Blues or Studio options)...because they sound as different as another instrument.
I'm returning to this thread to thank everyone again for all your helpful feedback and discussion!
I waited (not patiently) for Modartt's annual sale, and finally purchased Pianoteq Standard this morning. I absolutely love the new Bösendorfer. I also chose the D--so beautiful--and the U4 for a different flavor.
I agree with the sentiment that it's difficult to go wrong. These models are quite amazing.
I hope everyone is enjoying their music as I am!
Pete
The Summer Sale just inspired me to take the plunge. I've purchased PT8 Standard plus one extra piano instrument:
Steinway D
Petrof
Bosendorfer
Bechstein
Steinway D is a no-brainer because it replaces my previous sampled Ivory American Concert D. Petrof has been highly regarded in this forum, with a warm and woody sound to complement the Steinways.
The new Bosendorfer surprised me. I've not been a Bosendorfer fan, but digging into the demos, the sonic purity in this instrument is amazing. I'll do some sound design and have a lovely main piano.
The Bechstein simply sounds nice to me and complements the others well. My favorite aspect of the sound is the lack of phasing that comes with mic placement with sampled VIs. I may play with mid-side mic options for perfect collapse to mono.
I expected the Pianoteq "sound". While it's there, it is much better than some of the Modartt demos suggested. Plus, responsiveness and playability of the models more than offset these subtle artifacts.
I really appreciate how lightweight modelling is compared to sampling. Instant launch, ultra low latency and glitch free. On a M2 Max CPU I reach perhaps 10% CPU load in dense passages.
Overall, very satisfied with this investment so far.
@skymuse - it's interesting to me how you point out the differences and the difficulty with phasing with sampled piano microphones. Do you think this represents a lack of awareness on those recording the pianos? Or is it because they offer multiple microphones in an array and you are "mixing and matching"? I myself am always having issues in Pianoteq as I try to find the open "perfect" microphone arrangement for different sounds, but it didn't occur to me that one might have more trouble with sampled libraries that supposedly already had microphone placement.
I think it is difficult to produce a solid image with multiple mics and many dynamic velocity layers. The engineers who create sample-based instruments certainly are top notch. It's just that recording one dynamic performance is different from creating a large matrix that will be performed in countless ways. I have the highest respect for those who created Garritan CFX, Ravenscroft, Ivory D, etc.
Ivory American Concert D is one of my favorite sampled VIs. It responds well enough and has nice character for solo playing. My biggest issue is a "smeared" stereo image; I cannot tell exactly where the piano sits in the stereo field. My fix has been to mono-ize frequencies up to about 200 Hz, which better anchors the center. Garritan CFX is somewhat better in this regard.
In contrast, Pianoteq should present a mathematically perfect mono piano using a single mic. And better, I think it is possible to simulate stereo mid-side mic'ing, using a figure-8 and cardioid mic together. I haven't tried this yet, TBD.
Edit: The same rules for mic placement should apply in Pianoteq, e.g. following the 3:1 Rule to avoid comb filtering. Doing this may be tricky in Pianoteq due to the mic placement window being fairly low-resolution.