Zumadale wrote:

I'll have to look at the Roland DP10...I thought it wasn't continuous???  The VPC1 sends voltage to the sustain pedal and uses it to sense the position.  Are you sure the Roland DP10 can handle that??

I can confirm that it's continuous and well made. I replaced the VPC1-Pedal with a DP10 connected to a box from beatbars.com and from there via USB-C to my Macbook.
In other words: the DP10 is connected directly to the computer running pianoteq. You can then also calibrate it the usual way in pianoteq.

Ah...doesn't plug into the VPC1...that makes sense

I'll have to look at the Roland DP10...I thought it wasn't continuous???  The VPC1 sends voltage to the sustain pedal and uses it to sense the position.  Are you sure the Roland DP10 can handle that??

I can confirm that it's continuous and well made. I replaced the VPC1-Pedal with a DP10 connected to a box from beatbars.com and from there via USB-C to my Macbook.
In other words: the DP10 is connected directly to the computer running pianoteq. You can then also calibrate it the usual way in pianoteq.

What I miss the most in a digital controller vs real piano are the subtle vibrations felt in the fingers when playing chords.

Haha, just wanted to say the same thing. If I'm playing on my VPC exclusively for a longer period of time and then return to a real piano I usually feel the vibrations much more.

The iPhones have "force touch" which does small vibrations on pressure. Maybe a piano company will pick this up sometime.

DougBrock wrote:

I’m very happy with my Numa X Piano GT. I preferred its action to any others that I was able to get my hands on. I must note that I was unhappy at first when I got the new keyboard home, but then adjusting the keyboard response made a huge difference in my perception of how hard I needed to hit the keys. It was “meh” at factory default, but WOW once I fine tuned it to my preferences.

The acoustic piano sounds aren’t my favorite, but new sounds can be downloaded and I’ve found a new acoustic piano that I can live with any time I don’t want to lug a laptop along (for Pianoteq or MainStage).

I love the keybed, I love the user interface and how quickly I can turn layers on or off and how quickly I can adjust FX. I love that I can plug my laptop in directly via USB and not need an audio interface. I like (but might not use) the option of the digital 4 channel mixer, so that I can plug a dynamic mic or two in and apply FX and include it with my main audio outs.

I was surprised at how nice the other sounds were - I really just play acoustic piano 99% of the time, but there are very nice pads, synth leads, organs, etc.

My only complaint at this time is how long it takes to scroll to higher-numbered patches. I can put patches in favorites, but it is tedious just to try to scroll to 80s or 90s.

I found the GT more nimble than the FP-90X but memory can be faulty, I didn't test them side-by-side but at different times. I have no regrets with my GT at all, and people with faulty keys should just return it for an exchange or a refund. That's what warranties and return periods are for. All keyboards can have unit-to-unit variances and problems like that, all of them.

I was hoping for them to fix it, but Gianni gave me the word salad "explaining" that it was all to spec. So I chose to get a refund as I didn't want to have anything further to do with such a company. Pity.

Thankfully he did me a favour, as my px-s6000 is a much nicer keyboard, for me.

I’m very happy with my Numa X Piano GT. I preferred its action to any others that I was able to get my hands on. I must note that I was unhappy at first when I got the new keyboard home, but then adjusting the keyboard response made a huge difference in my perception of how hard I needed to hit the keys. It was “meh” at factory default, but WOW once I fine tuned it to my preferences.

The acoustic piano sounds aren’t my favorite, but new sounds can be downloaded and I’ve found a new acoustic piano that I can live with any time I don’t want to lug a laptop along (for Pianoteq or MainStage).

I love the keybed, I love the user interface and how quickly I can turn layers on or off and how quickly I can adjust FX. I love that I can plug my laptop in directly via USB and not need an audio interface. I like (but might not use) the option of the digital 4 channel mixer, so that I can plug a dynamic mic or two in and apply FX and include it with my main audio outs.

I was surprised at how nice the other sounds were - I really just play acoustic piano 99% of the time, but there are very nice pads, synth leads, organs, etc.

My only complaint at this time is how long it takes to scroll to higher-numbered patches. I can put patches in favorites, but it is tedious just to try to scroll to 80s or 90s.

I found the GT more nimble than the FP-90X but memory can be faulty, I didn't test them side-by-side but at different times. I have no regrets with my GT at all, and people with faulty keys should just return it for an exchange or a refund. That's what warranties and return periods are for. All keyboards can have unit-to-unit variances and problems like that, all of them.

Zumadale wrote:

cedric wrote:

Hi,

+1 for Kawai VPC 1 here too.

I have been using one for 5-6 years now, almost every day, and i'm still super happy with the action and quality.

A pleasure to play, and it ages very well.

Cedric

VPC1...horribly cheap sustain pedal...Kawai refuses to have fatar examine the quality of it...just send you a new one if it's under warranty

You can just plug a Roland DP10  and keep the soft pedal and sustenato fatar. It works perfectly in the VPC1 and the DP10 is very robust with linear continuous midi output.

I'll have to look at the Roland DP10...I thought it wasn't continuous???  The VPC1 sends voltage to the sustain pedal and uses it to sense the position.  Are you sure the Roland DP10 can handle that??

The acoustic piano sounds aren’t my favorite, but new sounds can be downloaded and I’ve found a new acoustic piano that I can live with any time I don’t want to lug a laptop along (for Pianoteq or MainStage).

I love the keybed, I love the user interface and how quickly I can turn layers on or off and how quickly I can adjust FX. I love that I can plug my laptop in directly via USB and not need an audio interface. I like (but might not use) the option of the digital 4 channel mixer, so that I can plug a dynamic mic or two in and apply FX and include it with my main audio outs.

I was surprised at how nice the other sounds were - I really just play acoustic piano 99% of the time, but there are very nice pads, synth leads, organs, etc.

My only complaint at this time is how long it takes to scroll to higher-numbered patches. I can put patches in favorites, but it is tedious just to try to scroll to 80s or 90s.

Thanks everyone for contributing to this very insightful topic, particularly those who have actually tried a specific keyboard and shared their valuable experience. I have something useful to share here as well.

I have had an fp-10 so far paired with Pianoteq and the touch experience is really amazing. However, I, too, have been looking for long now in the category of "pure piano controllers" for an upgrade. I am specifically looking for a longer pivot length and a seesaw action. The obvious upgrade then would be Kawai VPC1, but here is why I believe VPC1 is not worth the upgrade. I once opened my fp-10 (to install red felt over the end of my keys, haha...) and have a picture of its PHA-4 Standard action. I can now compare its distance of the fulcrum,
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zEF6eu...share_link,
with that on the RM3 (the action of VPC1):
https://kawaius.com/wp-content/uploads/...Action.jpg

As you can see, there is no significant difference really (for instance, you can pretty much say distance of fulcrum from end of black key is around half the length of black key, on both actions). This could mean we should really be happy with the fp-10!

The other product to consider here is of course the PHA-50, which appears on fp-90x first ("purest"). The pivot length on PHA-50 is really good (see, e.g.,  https://www.merriammusic.com/blog/piano...o-actions/); it's even longer than that on RM3. But fp-90x does not have a seesaw action of course and it is not close to a pure controller either (so you would spend several grands mostly for bells and whistles). Honestly I have not personally tested any PHA-50 so far and the reviews comparing it to PHA-4 is varied and not so conclusive to me. Anyway, that's me and my fp-10 for now.

the VPC1 uses the RM3 grand II  not the RM3 . But more importantly you are comparing a folded action with plastic keys vs a normal action with wooden keys.  I own both a FP60 and a VPC1 and for classical music, the VPC1 outperforms the FP big time. For pop/rock style maybe no problem with both keyboards.

cedric wrote:

Hi,

+1 for Kawai VPC 1 here too.

I have been using one for 5-6 years now, almost every day, and i'm still super happy with the action and quality.

A pleasure to play, and it ages very well.

Cedric

VPC1...horribly cheap sustain pedal...Kawai refuses to have fatar examine the quality of it...just send you a new one if it's under warranty

You can just plug a Roland DP10  and keep the soft pedal and sustenato fatar. It works perfectly in the VPC1 and the DP10 is very robust with linear continuous midi output.

Hi,

+1 for Kawai VPC 1 here too.

I have been using one for 5-6 years now, almost every day, and i'm still super happy with the action and quality.

A pleasure to play, and it ages very well.

Cedric

VPC1...horribly cheap sustain pedal...Kawai refuses to have fatar examine the quality of it...just send you a new one if it's under warranty

Thanks everyone for contributing to this very insightful topic, particularly those who have actually tried a specific keyboard and shared their valuable experience. I have something useful to share here as well.

I have had an fp-10 so far paired with Pianoteq and the touch experience is really amazing. However, I, too, have been looking for long now in the category of "pure piano controllers" for an upgrade. I am specifically looking for a longer pivot length and a seesaw action. The obvious upgrade then would be Kawai VPC1, but here is why I believe VPC1 is not worth the upgrade. I once opened my fp-10 (to install red felt over the end of my keys, haha...) and have a picture of its PHA-4 Standard action. I can now compare its distance of the fulcrum,
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zEF6eu...share_link,
with that on the RM3 (the action of VPC1):
https://kawaius.com/wp-content/uploads/...Action.jpg

As you can see, there is no significant difference really (for instance, you can pretty much say distance of fulcrum from end of black key is around half the length of black key, on both actions). This could mean we should really be happy with the fp-10!

The other product to consider here is of course the PHA-50, which appears on fp-90x first ("purest"). The pivot length on PHA-50 is really good (see, e.g.,  https://www.merriammusic.com/blog/piano...o-actions/); it's even longer than that on RM3. But fp-90x does not have a seesaw action of course and it is not close to a pure controller either (so you would spend several grands mostly for bells and whistles). Honestly I have not personally tested any PHA-50 so far and the reviews comparing it to PHA-4 is varied and not so conclusive to me. Anyway, that's me and my fp-10 for now.

The PHA50 is substantially different from the PHA4, not only longer pivot length but also completely different touch, I personally like it much better and it's regarded as a strong contender to any top tier action out there.

May I ask why a seesaw action?

I think you should try the several actions available and judge by their feel and playability, unless there's any specific technique you're after and which only can be reproduced with a seesaw action.. I'd be intrigued if so.

If you liked the PHA4 you might give the TP400W a try, they're somewhat similar IMO only the latter behaves better.

I have had an fp-10 so far paired with Pianoteq and the touch experience is really amazing. However, I, too, have been looking for long now in the category of "pure piano controllers" for an upgrade. I am specifically looking for a longer pivot length and a seesaw action. The obvious upgrade then would be Kawai VPC1, but here is why I believe VPC1 is not worth the upgrade. I once opened my fp-10 (to install red felt over the end of my keys, haha...) and have a picture of its PHA-4 Standard action. I can now compare its distance of the fulcrum,
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zEF6eu...share_link,
with that on the RM3 (the action of VPC1):
https://kawaius.com/wp-content/uploads/...Action.jpg

As you can see, there is no significant difference really (for instance, you can pretty much say distance of fulcrum from end of black key is around half the length of black key, on both actions). This could mean we should really be happy with the fp-10!

The other product to consider here is of course the PHA-50, which appears on fp-90x first ("purest"). The pivot length on PHA-50 is really good (see, e.g.,  https://www.merriammusic.com/blog/piano...o-actions/); it's even longer than that on RM3. But fp-90x does not have a seesaw action of course and it is not close to a pure controller either (so you would spend several grands mostly for bells and whistles). Honestly I have not personally tested any PHA-50 so far and the reviews comparing it to PHA-4 is varied and not so conclusive to me. Anyway, that's me and my fp-10 for now.

Fancellu wrote:

Got a casio px-s6000, much nicer, feel and tone

Thanks for the feedback, I also returned the NXP although I might give it another try, there were encountred feelings in my case.

How's the experience with the PXS6000 so far? Is there any noticeable difference while playing the keys front to back?

Also, is the action reproducing the same "issue" you describe in your video?

Thanks,
David

px-s6000 is lovely. Zero regrets. Slightly lighter action that the Numa X GT, but slimmer keyboard (important as it is on my desk). And v pretty.
And there are no malfunctioning keys. It has FANTASTIC speakers, 4 of them + great tones.
The shorter keys are fine, whatever they did, improved it a lot. This issue was addressed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zCNtCTQh3o

Stu Harrison @Merriam also reviews it. Lots of good things to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnoIAAIbZE0

When I turn it off, it says "bye". I say "bye" too. That's how much I like it!

--------------

As for the Numa X GT

1) Didn't like action that much, but that could have been bearable, I'm sure I could have got used to it, in time
2) The tones were terrible. I knew it, bystanders commented. Even though I of course have PTQ, I wanted a piano that could stand on its own feet
3) Malfunctioning key + appalling word salad response from Gianni. If he'd simply admitted it was a fault, and arranged a replacement, I'd have accepted it. He didn't. Having to play one key more heavily, than every other one, on a brand new £1.5k keyboard, is not acceptable

StudioLogic were famous for bad build quality. I'd hoped they had learned their lessons, but apparently they didn't, nor did they learn good customer support