Modartt user forum - FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:04:33 +0000

I'm still learning about tuning. The more I read, the more I see that there is to learn. There are several ways to tune notes to each other--different notes to use and different partials to match on each note. And even the definition of something like equal temperament is a subject of debate, since people both narrow or stretch the bearing or temperament--the initial octave that's tuned-- in varying ways and use different principles to stretch the octaves on each side.

I like what you're doing here, though. I do notice, like the other folks in the other thread, a few longish notes up near the top. That may be the reverb, in part?

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (sigasa) — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:17:23 +0000

Here's some more feedback! An attempt at detuning the M3 Close Mic. Its a simple linear detune, but there are, I think, some nice sounds? I have used the same Chopin Nocturne (no. 27) midi file as a refernce point (from the link you posted Jake).

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...Tuning.mp3

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...Tuning.fxp

Let me know what you think guys.

chris

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (JS) — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:41:33 +0000

I`m using your first preset a lot. In fact I think it's the best of all.
It sounds very transparent, clear in the mids, powerful in the basses. I also welcome the detuning in it, that makes it sound real and organic. Good job, I wonder why there's not more feedback to this...

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:14:50 +0000

Sorry to drag on about this, but I should mention that the name of the preset Third and Pure...only reflects that it was my third try at getting the tuning as close as I could to that of the tuning table--the name has nothing to do with Just thirds or fifths.

(Some people use the term "pure" to refer to Just tuning, which usually means just fifths. The tuning chart may contain some just thirds and fifths, and I did try to get tenth chords sounding decent, so the thirds should usually sound ok, and I did what I could with the octave fifths, but please don't let my hasty naming confuse.)

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Glenn NK) — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:51:43 +0000

Will try the M today.

Glenn

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:39:52 +0000

I have to admit that, in the recordings you posted, I like the sound more with the Dynamics at 87--seems to have more dymanic range and depth of field.

But I may not be hearing what you hear when you play--I'm suddenly hearing problems with wave recordings (and it's in the wave, before the mp3 conversion). I posted a separate question about this.

Tried the Steinway M preset? (I didn't post an mp3 of it partly because the wave file ruined the sound.)

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Glenn NK) — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:58:00 +0000

Have uploaded mp3 of "O Come Emmanuel" using the third version of Jake Johnson's "M3 Third Close Mic Steinway D Stretch" fxp.

One rendering used the Dynamics slider at 87, the other at 60 (which I normally play with as the higher level doesn't work for me).

Glenn

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Glenn NK) — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:58:28 +0000

I'm listening to it right now (3rd edition). It's good I think.

Glenn

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 02:28:00 +0000

And finally a third and for now last version of this tuning. This is more "pure" without my early mistakes. I may actually prefer the old and beat up first and second revisions, which need more work. But for the tuning itself:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...%20Raw.fxp

The reason for the difference in the three presets: I made a beginner's mistake of not using the Flat temperament to turn off all default octave stretching. The first preset thus lowered the bass and raised the treble beyond the default stretching, even though I did calculate the stretch into the math. (I just forgot to turn it off, I think...) The next two corrections made changes just trying to get each note sounding better, with the default stretching still on. Then I saw the mistake, used the Flat temperament, and created the third "pure" preset. So I'll be quiet.

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:41:38 +0000

Here's the next, the Second revision:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...opy%29.fxp

Glenn--Could you render O Come, O Come Emmanuel using your midi file? This version was done largely with that piece in mind, and it has some good moments.

(Other people: The first rendering of the piece is with the previous version, which had what might be politely called troubles in the bass.)

Still struggling a bit with the bass, but it's getting better. The change in the bass changes the middle, too, articulating it more. Which means that in the Chopin, which I didn't render, it competes more with melody in the treble, and doesn't sound as good for that piece. But it's certainly better in the bass and in the center for music with less emphasis on a melody up high.

I'm having to take another look at the entire tuning, really: earlier problem with the bass seems to have come from my lowering freqs that were already lowered in the PTeq stretch, but I thought I accounted for that. Apparently not. So I'm going with the Flat temperament now.

In any case, I'm learning just how complex these things get. Damn it.

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:13:28 +0000

By the way, the midi file for the Chopin Nocturne 27 was taken from:

http://www.gressus.se/chopin/midi/chopin.html

For reference, here's a link to a live performance of the same piece being played on a Steinway D. The sound differs, given the room, different mic settings, and a different attack, but the tuning sounds similar?

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.ph...631.0.html

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Glenn NK) — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:24:36 +0000

Jake:

You have e-mail.

Glenn

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:45:52 +0000

Glenn:

Could you post the midi file for this? I could then replay it several times and adjust the notes while listening. I can adjust to pitch more, but I don't know this piece, and getting the notes right with just this harmony may be touchy.

Much faster than our going back forth with my edits, etc. Thanks if you can.

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:20:13 +0000

Yes, I hear the out-of tune bass notes. It's the low D--A's mainly, isn't it?

I'll change the notes and check others around them. Embarrassing--these were the last notes that I did, and I no longer have an 88 note keyboard, so I must have rushed them and not checked them properly.

Re: FINAL (third pure) raw version of Steinway D tuning posted.

null@example.com (Jake Johnson) — Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:08:49 +0000

Well, we were posting files at the same time. Here are two midi-rendered files of the first and last half of the Chopin Nocturne 27 using the Revised Steinway D tuning on the M3 piano:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...tuning.mp3

Part 2 shows off this preset much better.

(They have the impedance set for my default. Did you say that you changed yours to 1.0 globally?) They bring out the strengths and weaknesses of the tuning: I do hear what may sound odd, but I like the richness and at times brittleness of the melody. It sounds like an older piano that might not be up to concert standards, but has a tone of its own. Not sure I like some the midrange, but I'm not sure how much that has to do with the mic and lid set up.

That brittle melodic range, by the way, came largely from changing the pitch of three notes in the bass by a very few cents. It's amazing to me how much change in the overall timbre these small changes in the bass cause, completely altering the resonances in the midrange and treble.

I'm off to listen to your piece, now.