OP
I would suggest you to do this:
1. Find a note/key that is creating problems for your tinnitus..
2. Use another good quality vst and and press the same key and see if you have problems
3. If sound at step 2 is ok look at the spectrum for the sound obtained at step 1 and at the step 2 and note the extra frequencyes
4. Use an equalizer for the sound at step  1 and try to remove the frequencies you don;t see at step 2.
5 Listen the new sound and see if it is ok for your tinitus
6. If is ok document the entire process and send the audio and the explanations to the devs

Good idea.

An analog spectrum analysis of the output signal would be the other thing I'd want to figure out...

Time dependent frequency heatmap of analog output, look for any sharp peaks. I.e. I would want to avoid digital to rule out sampling resolution issues not catching the issue.

I'll want to get a solid reverb plugin as well anyways, so it would be a good excuse to compare reverb, one of the core drivers of what i am perceiving. Also planning to try out the aforementioned lava mics and do some more analysis/comparison.

panz3r wrote:

jacko wrote:

anyone coming to this thread at this point and looking for scientific evidence would do well to read the first few posts on p.1. There, evidence is provided that the OP spent up to 14 hours at a time with headphones on tweaking pianoteq until his ears were ringing

There have been a few hypotheses put forward. One is that pianoteq has some mystery ingredient that causes tinnitus

another is that spending 14 hours at a time tweaking frequencies with headphones on until your ears ring can cause tinnitus

applying occam's razor, my money is on the latter, especially given the state of knowledge about tinnitus (plenty of research out there if you want to look)

to the OP, tinnitus can be distressing. i have it and would love to be rid of it. i hope you can learn to live with it and get past trying to make moddart a scapegoat

I've read every one of your arguments. I'm out of this now - good luck

OP should stop hurting itself with 14 hours of tweaking pianoteq and just use some vst that works to his liking out of the box. Is not like pianoteq is the only VST in the market.

Dude. You're ignoring the other people who experienced the same thing with less time exposure, and so is Jacko and key fumbler.

And now you're all patting each other on the back with upvotes, ignoring absolutely everything I have to say, and being incredibly mean spirited while doing it.

You guys are seriously just being bullies at this point, riding off of each other's validation, like 13 year old girls ganging up on someone.

And worse, you're all non professionals when it comes to safety and equipment, arguing with someone who has had to deal with this sort of thing in a professional environment. Children.

I really don't care what letters you might have after your name. If you are an expert in this field then you really should know better, you have even less excuses for your judgement and highly unpleasant behaviour.
Your judgement is most certainly clouded here.  You are too close, seemingly unable to dispassionately consider the facts.

I do hope the next update for Pianoteq happens to solve or reduce your grievances with Pianoteq nonetheless. I would wish this for any fellow tinnitus sufferer.

I hope your attitude with friends and colleagues is less foul in person. Giving you the benefit of the doubt you could be a completely different person offline.

My heart and compassion reach out to you, as well as my admiration for the work you have done trying to find the cause of the problem, but something that must surely take a deep toll on you.

I also have tinnitus, more in the right ear, but it's noise at very high volume that bothers me most. For example, hearing an ambulance driving close by is almost unbearable. Have to put my hands over my ears. My tinnitus is slowly goig worse all the time. But I have to live with it.

I wish you peace and joy in your life

Kind Regards,

Stig

Pianoteqenthusiast, Organteqenthusiast, Harpteqenthusiast, Harpsichordteqenthusiast, experimenter and Graf/Grimalditeqenthusiast and Celesteteqenthusiast

jacko wrote:

Opus32 wrote:

There is ample evidence to spark further investigation on the topic. Unlike religion, there is a falsifiable, and therefore scientifically testable claim.

anyone coming to this thread at this point and looking for scientific evidence would do well to read the first few posts on p.1. There, evidence is provided that the OP spent up to 14 hours at a time with headphones on tweaking pianoteq until his ears were ringing

There have been a few hypotheses put forward. One is that pianoteq has some mystery ingredient that causes tinnitus

another is that spending 14 hours at a time tweaking frequencies with headphones on until your ears ring can cause tinnitus

applying occam's razor, my money is on the latter, especially given the state of knowledge about tinnitus (plenty of research out there if you want to look)

to the OP, tinnitus can be distressing. i have it and would love to be rid of it. i hope you can learn to live with it and get past trying to make moddart a scapegoat

I've read every one of your arguments. I'm out of this now - good luck

OP should stop hurting itself with 14 hours of tweaking pianoteq and just use some vst that works to his liking out of the box. Is not like pianoteq is the only VST in the market.

Dude. You're ignoring the other people who experienced the same thing with less time exposure, and so is Jacko and key fumbler.

And now you're all patting each other on the back with upvotes, ignoring absolutely everything I have to say, and being incredibly mean spirited while doing it.

You guys are seriously just being bullies at this point, riding off of each other's validation, like 13 year old girls ganging up on someone.

And worse, you're all non professionals when it comes to safety and equipment, arguing with someone who has had to deal with this sort of thing in a professional environment. Children.

Opus32 wrote:

There is ample evidence to spark further investigation on the topic. Unlike religion, there is a falsifiable, and therefore scientifically testable claim.

anyone coming to this thread at this point and looking for scientific evidence would do well to read the first few posts on p.1. There, evidence is provided that the OP spent up to 14 hours at a time with headphones on tweaking pianoteq until his ears were ringing

There have been a few hypotheses put forward. One is that pianoteq has some mystery ingredient that causes tinnitus

another is that spending 14 hours at a time tweaking frequencies with headphones on until your ears ring can cause tinnitus

applying occam's razor, my money is on the latter, especially given the state of knowledge about tinnitus (plenty of research out there if you want to look)

to the OP, tinnitus can be distressing. i have it and would love to be rid of it. i hope you can learn to live with it and get past trying to make moddart a scapegoat

I've read every one of your arguments. I'm out of this now - good luck

OP should stop hurting itself with 14 hours of tweaking pianoteq and just use some vst that works to his liking out of the box. Is not like pianoteq is the only VST in the market.

There is ample evidence to spark further investigation on the topic. Unlike religion, there is a falsifiable, and therefore scientifically testable claim.

anyone coming to this thread at this point and looking for scientific evidence would do well to read the first few posts on p.1. There, evidence is provided that the OP spent up to 14 hours at a time with headphones on tweaking pianoteq until his ears were ringing

There have been a few hypotheses put forward. One is that pianoteq has some mystery ingredient that causes tinnitus

another is that spending 14 hours at a time tweaking frequencies with headphones on until your ears ring can cause tinnitus

applying occam's razor, my money is on the latter, especially given the state of knowledge about tinnitus (plenty of research out there if you want to look)

to the OP, tinnitus can be distressing. i have it and would love to be rid of it. i hope you can learn to live with it and get past trying to make moddart a scapegoat

I've read every one of your arguments. I'm out of this now - good luck

You know, a core element of critical reading comprehension is being able to use context clues to understand what was written, and draw a conclusion about what the author means from those context clues.

Said with no irony at all.

If your case is a solid one my cautionary points should be swept aside with ease.

Opus32 wrote:

Key Fumbler wrote:

He would probably say Pianoteq isn't a real Piano, so your comment doesn't apply here, for he is making the extraordinary claim that there are probably false artificial unintended hidden frequencies exacerbating or creating tinnitus from Pianoteq.
What is more he makes the extraordinary claim that it is for Modartt to make the case that they are not doing this, or that their product is safe!

It could be that Pianoteq actually improve their models and this problem goes away for him, equally it might get worse for someone else as tinnitus is highly individual.

I doubt there is any dynamic virtual instrument, or real hardware instrument that doesn't have this effect to any given individual and their tinnitus!
The actually very low number of people agreeing with his claim is therefore actually potentially surprising, especially given the sheer volume of people that have read the thread.

My concern would be that if this dubious claim sticks then the grifters looking for a potential claim would circle like vultures, even if the original claim was made in good faith. This would also open up Pandora's box for claims against any instrument developers.

I believe if Pianoteq was to actually be an absolutely perfect representation of a real piano completely and totally indistinguishable from the real thing (the real recorded thing in stereo anyway) there would still be people swearing blind that Pianoteq sounded like Pianoteq, such is the nature of human psychology. The more expensive wine literally tastes better in the human mind.

This is a blatant mischaracterization of my view.

Also, parroting Richard Dawkins' and Carl Sagan's arguments against religion against everything you disagree with shows that you don't actually understand what's happening here, nor do you actually understand the logic behind Dawkins'/Sagan's arguments as deeply as you might think.

There is ample evidence to spark further investigation on the topic. Unlike religion, there is a falsifiable, and therefore scientifically testable claim.

I actually have such scientific training; you do not. Stop pretending to be an expert, stop misleading nonexperts, please, and leave this to the professional engineers at Modartt.

Religion is not discussed here, nor are comparisons to faith either. No argument is borrowed, just my own thoughts. 

A bizarre post all round, pitiful really.

You know, a core element of critical reading comprehension is being able to use context clues to understand what was written, and draw a conclusion about what the author means from those context clues.

In this case, you demonstrate a pretty solid lack of ability in that area as well.

I wouldn't be so harsh and pointed about this if you were actually paying attention and being fair in your discussion.

This is pretty clearly about your ego for you, while this is about protecting the safety of others.

Again, you are far out of your depth, and are showing that you're more of an argumentative egotistical manipulator.

Key Fumbler wrote:

panz3r wrote:

I don't think in general is really known what causes tinnitus so it may be very well in the brain .
I don't think is realistic to expect from modartt to do research in how piano waves impact tinitus and even if they do i highly doubt they will figure it out.
Probably is best to just use another VST and call it a day.

He would probably say Pianoteq isn't a real Piano, so your comment doesn't apply here, for he is making the extraordinary claim that there are probably false artificial unintended hidden frequencies exacerbating or creating tinnitus from Pianoteq.
What is more he makes the extraordinary claim that it is for Modartt to make the case that they are not doing this, or that their product is safe!

It could be that Pianoteq actually improve their models and this problem goes away for him, equally it might get worse for someone else as tinnitus is highly individual.

I doubt there is any dynamic virtual instrument, or real hardware instrument that doesn't have this effect to any given individual and their tinnitus!
The actually very low number of people agreeing with his claim is therefore actually potentially surprising, especially given the sheer volume of people that have read the thread.

My concern would be that if this dubious claim sticks then the grifters looking for a potential claim would circle like vultures, even if the original claim was made in good faith. This would also open up Pandora's box for claims against any instrument developers.

I believe if Pianoteq was to actually be an absolutely perfect representation of a real piano completely and totally indistinguishable from the real thing (the real recorded thing in stereo anyway) there would still be people swearing blind that Pianoteq sounded like Pianoteq, such is the nature of human psychology. The more expensive wine literally tastes better in the human mind.

This is a blatant mischaracterization of my view.

Also, parroting Richard Dawkins' and Carl Sagan's arguments against religion against everything you disagree with shows that you don't actually understand what's happening here, nor do you actually understand the logic behind Dawkins'/Sagan's arguments as deeply as you might think.

There is ample evidence to spark further investigation on the topic. Unlike religion, there is a falsifiable, and therefore scientifically testable claim.

I actually have such scientific training; you do not. Stop pretending to be an expert, stop misleading nonexperts, please, and leave this to the professional engineers at Modartt.

Religion is not discussed here, nor are comparisons to faith either. No argument is borrowed, just my own thoughts. 

A bizarre post all round, pitiful really.

panz3r wrote:

I don't think in general is really known what causes tinnitus so it may be very well in the brain .
I don't think is realistic to expect from modartt to do research in how piano waves impact tinitus and even if they do i highly doubt they will figure it out.
Probably is best to just use another VST and call it a day.

He would probably say Pianoteq isn't a real Piano, so your comment doesn't apply here, for he is making the extraordinary claim that there are probably false artificial unintended hidden frequencies exacerbating or creating tinnitus from Pianoteq.
What is more he makes the extraordinary claim that it is for Modartt to make the case that they are not doing this, or that their product is safe!

It could be that Pianoteq actually improve their models and this problem goes away for him, equally it might get worse for someone else as tinnitus is highly individual.

I doubt there is any dynamic virtual instrument, or real hardware instrument that doesn't have this effect to any given individual and their tinnitus!
The actually very low number of people agreeing with his claim is therefore actually potentially surprising, especially given the sheer volume of people that have read the thread.

My concern would be that if this dubious claim sticks then the grifters looking for a potential claim would circle like vultures, even if the original claim was made in good faith. This would also open up Pandora's box for claims against any instrument developers.

I believe if Pianoteq was to actually be an absolutely perfect representation of a real piano completely and totally indistinguishable from the real thing (the real recorded thing in stereo anyway) there would still be people swearing blind that Pianoteq sounded like Pianoteq, such is the nature of human psychology. The more expensive wine literally tastes better in the human mind.

This is a blatant mischaracterization of my view.

Also, parroting Richard Dawkins' and Carl Sagan's arguments against religion against everything you disagree with shows that you don't actually understand what's happening here, nor do you actually understand the logic behind Dawkins'/Sagan's arguments as deeply as you might think.

The point of those arguments is why you should not accept religion, and claims in general made without evidence. Here, I am not claiming that there absolutely overtones or something like that, but I am saying that something is happening to cause that perception in myself and many others. Because it's many others also reporting on it, that ACTUALLY IS QUALIFYING EVIDENCE TO WARRANT FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

There is ample evidence to spark further investigation on the topic. Unlike religion, there is a falsifiable, and therefore scientifically testable claim.

I actually have such scientific training; you do not. Stop pretending to be an expert, stop misleading nonexperts, please, and leave this to the professional engineers at Modartt.

I don't think in general is really known what causes tinnitus so it may be very well in the brain .
I don't think is realistic to expect from modartt to do research in how piano waves impact tinitus and even if they do i highly doubt they will figure it out.
Probably is best to just use another VST and call it a day.

He would probably say Pianoteq isn't a real Piano, so your comment doesn't apply here, for he is making the extraordinary claim that there are probably false artificial unintended hidden frequencies exacerbating or creating tinnitus from Pianoteq.
What is more he makes the extraordinary claim that it is for Modartt to make the case that they are not doing this, or that their product is safe!

It could be that Pianoteq actually improve their models and this problem goes away for him, equally it might get worse for someone else as tinnitus is highly individual.

I doubt there is any dynamic virtual instrument, or real hardware instrument that doesn't have this effect to any given individual and their tinnitus!
The actually very low number of people agreeing with his claim is therefore actually potentially surprising, especially given the sheer volume of people that have read the thread.

My concern would be that if this dubious claim sticks then the grifters looking for a potential claim would circle like vultures, even if the original claim was made in good faith. This would also open up Pandora's box for claims against any instrument developers.

I believe if Pianoteq was to actually be an absolutely perfect representation of a real piano completely and totally indistinguishable from the real thing (the real recorded thing in stereo anyway) there would still be people swearing blind that Pianoteq sounded like Pianoteq, such is the nature of human psychology. The more expensive wine literally tastes better in the human mind.