I've just ordered a Yamaha CP33. I understand it's a very good stage piano, built well with a very nice action. I had to pay an extra £25 for the optional music rest. I will let you guys know how it integrates with pianoteq!

Chris

Thank you for your comments.

The release velocity issue was recently discussed on the forum with a few comments on keyboards that worked (often vintage) and the impact on Pianoteq sound. It should also be noted that one of the chief selling points of the V-Piano is its release sound. The forum subject was:

Any keyboards that send MIDI velocity of key release?

And thanks to the poster on the Yamaha NL2 action info.

Pete

You are right on target with your comments, but I am still lacking a current production model that seems to be of that caliber. ....

And release velocity seems to be out of the realm of any of them. Frustrating! I never thought it would be so complicated to find a professional level keyboard.

Pete

Hello again Pete,

I wish to address your comment of being frustrated about the lack of release velocity in commercially available keyboards.  To my knowledge, the only instrument that sends release velocity other than a value of 127 is the Mark IV version of the Yamaha Disklavier piano.

Restated, I wouldn't worry too much about release velocity.  RL was included in the MIDI protocol in the early 1980's when companies Roland, Yamaha and Korg drew up the MIDI specification.  At the time, they included RL as a possibility for the future, but that possibility was not executed, to my knowledge.

Let's think about release velocity for a moment:
If, in a real or modeled grand piano, the string was already impacted by the hammer, then the string is freely vibrating/oscillating on its own.  The only two conditions that will cause a vibrating string to stop are the damper silencing it, or the vibration decays away naturally.  If one plays a staccato note, and presumably releases the note quickly, then the damper will come down by gravity -- this should already be addressed by high values of MIDI release velocity.

If, on the other hand, the notes are played very softly, then the strings' vibrational amplitudes are already lower than from a loud staccato attack, and even a "slow" release velocity (i.e., slowly falling damper) should not make all that much difference in the sound.  And besides, if you are playing a piece that is soft throughout, you can always modify the damper efficiency in Pianoteq.

Perhaps I am completely wrong about this, but here is what I believe: 
Release velocity sensitivity, taken as a whole -- or the lack of it in a keyboard -- should not be something to worry about in the grand scheme of acquiring a controller keyboard.  Or, at least, it should be given much less priority to the way the 'board responds to your touch, the evenness you are able to control velocity from 1 to 127, or the weight of the keys, or build quality, etc. etc.

Enough of my rambling,

Cheers,

Joe

And the Yamaha NL2 action is in which product?

Pete

The NL2 Natural Wood action is in the higher end CLP and CVP Yamaha digital pianos. I think it's also in the Yamaha Modus range?

Pete

Hi Joe:

You are right on target with your comments, but I am still lacking a current production model that seems to be of that caliber. So far, the PK88 has the most appeal because of its rugged simplicity. The late model StudioLogic keyboards seems to have software issues. The CME does not seem to fit me.

And release velocity seems to be out of the realm of any of them. Frustrating! I never thought it would be so complicated to find a professional level keyboard.

Pete

The Akai MPK88 has very good reviews and is extremely ruggedly built. I personally like the yamaha NL2 action (Natural Wood in white keys) which does not have the same friction problems as the GH, GHE and GH3 Yamaha actions. I have a Yamaha P120S (which presently has the GHE action) and am going to put an NL2 action into it as well as the nescessary electronics for the damper sensor etc.. The dynamic range of yamahas keyboards are fantastic. you can get the full range on them! (0-127).

You are right on target with your comments, but I am still lacking a current production model that seems to be of that caliber. So far, the PK88 has the most appeal because of its rugged simplicity. The late model StudioLogic keyboards seems to have software issues. The CME does not seem to fit me.

And release velocity seems to be out of the realm of any of them. Frustrating! I never thought it would be so complicated to find a professional level keyboard.

Pete

Regardless of which controller keyboard you finally decide to acquire, I would suggest that you buy the "best" 'board you can afford.  When I dove into the world of electronic music and MIDI controllers (with an extensive classical piano music background), I purchased a Roland A-80 back in 1990.  This keyboard has lasted me nearly 20 years -- playing nearly every day on it -- with zero operating/performance problems and zero repairs.

Now, I am not recommending this particular make and model per se, as this particular instrument is ancient by today's standards; besides, there are many great 'boards out there.  The point is that a well-built keyboard, made by a reputable manufacturer, that has the features YOU most desire ... should last a very long time for you.   Despite these tough economic times, if one goes strictly for the lowest price, or the lowest end, you will inevitably grow tired of it, and it will probably break prematurely, etc., etc. 

"Listen to your fingers."  It will be cheaper in the long run if you get something that will last you 10, 20 or more years.

Cheers,

Joe

Also check out Akai's new MPK88.  I just got mine and it's incredible!  Rock solid construction, great action, weighted keys, tons of control features.

How are you getting on with your MPK88 johnvos? Does it integrate well with pianoteq? can you play rapid repetitions on a single note? How does it compare to Yamaha keyboard actions? Finally, would you recommend it for pianoteq and why?

Hey Jope
I did a short recording  ( a terribly slow jazzy like piece - just a couple of bars) in Logic with breath controlled sax (sax and bass from Garritan Jazz & BigBand - basic Rhodes PInaoteq)..
This was Yamaha BC1 connected to the UF80 - no extra settings there....

cheers
Hans

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...breath.mp3

Thanks a lot, Hans! If I don't find a shop to do some testing myself, I think I will order it somewhere. BTW do you know Mr. Sax T? Here's a short piece made with it (somewhat off-topic because it's without Pianoteq, but both PTQ and Mr.Sax T are good lively virtual instruments).

Besides Herman, anyone else have experience with this PK88 and its feel?

The Fatar keyboards in the Studiologic Numa may be a more recent design, but from what I keep hearing in different circles is that it is buggy as hell.

But then again release velocity seems to be missing on everything except the CME?

Pete

cheers
Hans

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...breath.mp3

Hi Jope
I have had a UF80 since december 2007 and have not had problems with it. I also use the CME GPP3 pedal and don't have problems with that either. Maybe I have just been lucky so far.. no idea, because indeed you can read an awful lot of negative crits... but I do like the feel of the keyboard myself.... and love the pedals too.
I must say I have never tried the breath controller input - I will have to find my old Yamaha BC1 and see how and if that works. Will get back on that later!
cheers
Hans

Sounds good... And the BC1 is exactly what I use so any further information is higly appreciated!