You strike me as a guitar/rock kinda guy right?  So I guess you know how long it takes to find the perfect guitar, the perfect sounding amp etc?  When you finally do, you don't want to mess with the electronics and have that change the sound, even a little, right?

Guitar is my second instrument, piano is my first   Of course, I understand you and what you're trying to say. I'm just finding my old presets (which weren't many, though) sounding even better, that's why I'm not complaining! I guess this is all very subjective matter.

I previously used 3.0.  Yes you can use a previous version, but this is very inconvenient and it's easy to forget which sound is right for which version.  Also some DAWs apparently can't differentiate between the different plugins which can cause more problems.

The v1 and v2 models are already available in 3.5 exactly for this reason, so why not 3.0?

ReBased, we compiled a C3 legacy version called C3leg.ptq. You can download it in the instruments page http://www.pianoteq.com/instruments
As I mentioned in
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...6726#p6726
we could easily provide the older version of C1 and C2 as legacy instruments because they were not maintained, whereas the C3 is still maintained, which brings some complications. From your side, here is how you need to proceed to load your old C3 presets in the new C3 (leg) instrument:
- load your old C3 fxp into the version 3.5: it will be loaded by the new C3 (not the legacy version),
- freeze all parameters,
- change to ”C3 * (leg)” (doesn’t matter which preset as all parameters are frozen),
- save this as your new “old” preset.
This legacy version will bring you much closer to the old C3 than the current C3. That’s the best we can do for importing old presets in the 3.5 version, but please be aware that there still may remain some unavoidable small differences due to the change in the algorithms.

Because, I gather, the difference between 3.0 and 3.5 models isn't of THAT big scale, and there's no actual point of having two 98% similar models.

They're big enough so that all of us can tell the difference, and that's the problem.

You strike me as a guitar/rock kinda guy right?  So I guess you know how long it takes to find the perfect guitar, the perfect sounding amp etc?  When you finally do, you don't want to mess with the electronics and have that change the sound, even a little, right?

You don't mess with a Stradivarius do you?  That's how I treat my electronic sounds when I get them just right, I don't want them to change.  It's not that hard to understand...

G

Have you tried recreating the preset in the new version? My impression is that the main difference in the sound is in the soundboard, the Direct sound duration (which doesn't drop off as suddenly if you move the slider to the right), and the Quadratic effect (which seems to have more, or louder, high partials now). Have you tried using both standalone versions open at once? You might be able to recreate the sound very fast just using those three sliders...

I have tried it before but I will try again with those sliders, thanks for the tip.  I think it's not as simple as that though, otherwise Modartt could have converted 3.0 presets perfectly - but I'll let you know .

Have you tried recreating the preset in the new version? My impression is that the main difference in the sound is in the soundboard, the Direct sound duration (which doesn't drop off as suddenly if you move the slider to the right), and the Quadratic effect (which seems to have more, or louder, high partials now). Have you tried using both standalone versions open at once? You might be able to recreate the sound very fast just using those three sliders...

What version of Pianoteq have you used already?

From the User Area, registered users can download and install previous versions, which will enable one to recreate a sound done in a previous version.

I previously used 3.0.  Yes you can use a previous version, but this is very inconvenient and it's easy to forget which sound is right for which version.  Also some DAWs apparently can't differentiate between the different plugins which can cause more problems.

The v1 and v2 models are already available in 3.5 exactly for this reason, so why not 3.0?

So if all you do is play live, that's fine - but if I render an old DAW project with a MIDI performance for a particular PT sound, and that sound is now recognizably different (due to changes in the PT engine), the performance is no longer correct and ruined.

And my 2nd point is that I treat my own customized PT sounds like other synthesized sounds that I've programmed.  I am very particular about having a sound that feels emotionally right (and is often a sound that was programmed when I was in a particular frame of mind, never to be repeated).  So a significant change in the modelling engine that fundamentally changes the character of the sound (like the 3.5 changes) destroys the 'mood' of that sound that no amount of tweaking will get back.  In 3.5 the timbre of the sound is significantly different, and you can't tweak that away.

So even though the new sound may be more 'realistic', it no longer feels the same.  That's a deal-breaker for me.

What version of Pianoteq have you used already?

From the User Area, registered users can download and install previous versions, which will enable one to recreate a sound done in a previous version.

Windows, v3.0.5 32 bit
Windows, v3.0.5 64 bit
MacOS X v3.05
Linux v3.05 32 bit
Linux v3.05 64 bit
Windows v2.3.0

Glenn
MaxOS X v2.3.0

If the piano that was used had not been available, and a different brand had been used, does that mean it would have ruined the recording?  And if a different piano had been used, how would you have known?

Not necessarily, but I was talking about changing only the sound of the piano after the recording (which in reality can only be done with a MIDI performance of a software piano).  Basically what if you could alter the piano sound of a famous recording?  You wouldn't want to do that (except for fun) right?

Now if you changed the piano before the recording, the performance would have been different, as the performer would have played that piano differently to get the feel he wants.

So if all you do is play live, that's fine - but if I render an old DAW project with a MIDI performance for a particular PT sound, and that sound is now recognizably different (due to changes in the PT engine), the performance is no longer correct and ruined.

And my 2nd point is that I treat my own customized PT sounds like other synthesized sounds that I've programmed.  I am very particular about having a sound that feels emotionally right (and is often a sound that was programmed when I was in a particular frame of mind, never to be repeated).  So a significant change in the modelling engine that fundamentally changes the character of the sound (like the 3.5 changes) destroys the 'mood' of that sound that no amount of tweaking will get back.  In 3.5 the timbre of the sound is significantly different, and you can't tweak that away.

So even though the new sound may be more 'realistic', it no longer feels the same.  That's a deal-breaker for me.

Then you don't get where I'm coming from.  There is no 'better' sound than the right sound.  Take any famous recording with a prominent piano sound - can you 'improve' the record by changing the piano sound?  Of course not, it would ruin the record.  The sound, the performance is a moment in time, it's part of what makes the record great.  Don't mess with it - that's my point.

Ahh, but isn't this is completely subjective - the piano you like in a piano concerto may not be the sound I would have liked.

And what makes one particular piano sound "right"?  Isn't "right" based on one's preferences which in turn are based on experience and exposure to sounds, and as such is highly personal and variable.

Most pianists in North America prefer the Steinway from New York, likely because of familiarity.  I prefer the Bosendorfer sound.  This too is subjective as there is no one "right" piano sound.

If the piano that was used had not been available, and a different brand had been used, does that mean it would have ruined the recording?  And if a different piano had been used, how would you have known?

As pianists, we seldom get to carry our own personal nine foot grand around - we use what is available - and if we have a modicum of skill, we quickly learn to adjust to the piano at hand.

Sorry to say, but you and Beto-Music (IIRC) seem to be the minority.

If that's true, then why are the v1 and v2 models still available?  Obviously others want to keep their existing sounds unmodified.

I've been trying to do that.

Replacing my host is not an option (certainly not because of one plugin).

Then you don't get where I'm coming from.  There is no 'better' sound than the right sound.  Take any famous recording with a prominent piano sound - can you 'improve' the record by changing the piano sound?  Of course not, it would ruin the record.  The sound, the performance is a moment in time, it's part of what makes the record great.  Don't mess with it - that's my point.

Your only current solution is using both versions if possible. If your host doesn't like it, find a replacement.

What's the problem in tweaking the sound again on the new version, anyways? It's very probable that you'll find EVEN BETTER sounds than in the old version, and stick by it.

This was explained by Julien before.

Right, but I think he's wrong on this one.

That's fine, but it doesn't work for me that way.  When I get a sound 'just right', it needs to stay that way.  For general playing I enjoy the extra realism of the new model, but for recording/performing the sound can't change.