Key Fumbler wrote:

I uploaded a much darker sounding grand derived from the NY D model in the wee hours. Maybe it was too dark to still be called the Steinway.  I called that "Dark Grand".

Anyway I deleted that preset but uploaded it again within a hybrid with the Bluethner, so it is still there within that morph piano.   
Basically I don't want to spam the FXP section with my experiments. I am pleased with this latest morph.

This possibly doesn't belong in your thread here, but it also has tamed brilliance so it might appeal. I'm not pretending it still sounds like a Steinway.

Just enable the EQ curves for a more brilliant sound - season to taste!

Update: I deleted this. It sounds bloody awful to me now. Something went wrong with that patch before I uploaded sorry.

Ha!

This happens to me every day. I only know I've got a good piano after I can like it the next day. I have like a couple hundred saved instruments at this point.

I uploaded a much darker sounding grand derived from the NY D model in the wee hours. Maybe it was too dark to still be called the Steinway.  I called that "Dark Grand".

Anyway I deleted that preset but uploaded it again within a hybrid with the Bluethner, so it is still there within that morph piano.   
Basically I don't want to spam the FXP section with my experiments. I am pleased with this latest morph.

This possibly doesn't belong in your thread here, but it also has tamed brilliance so it might appeal. I'm not pretending it still sounds like a Steinway.

Just enable the EQ curves for a more brilliant sound - season to taste!

Update: I deleted this. It sounds bloody awful to me now. Something went wrong with that patch before I uploaded sorry.

https://forum.modartt.com//file/b3b9q2rd

I think there's too much voicing work done on it to retroactively alter it.

People keep buying the instruments and the product because of this preset, maybe I need to change careers lol

I assumed so... I have to convince Modartt to include Kivir in their demo... I would also have to buy the Bluethner (not my favorite tone) and one of the Kremseggs (again, not a favorite). Hard choice. Thanks...

Hi Opus32,

I really enjoyed your recordings, and I must say that your preset is making me very tempted to buy Pianoteq. However, I cannot try your preset in the Pianoteq demo because it uses one piano (Erard 1922) that is a KIVIR-project free piano to pianoteq owners but that cannot be installed in the demo (I know this is a bit absurd: the paid pianos are available in the demo, but the free pianos are not... Go figure...). Whenever I attempt to install your preset, only the Bluethner and the Bechstein sound... Unless someone can explain me how to install the kivir project in the demo. BTW, it is the Kivir Erard 1922, correct? Because in your first post you say "1926 Erard", and I cannot find that piano in the pianoteq list of instruments.

I assume that there are no Kremsegg piano that may be a suitable substitute for the Erard, is there?

Sorry, 1922 Erard. Lol.

I think there's too much voicing work done on it to retroactively alter it.

People keep buying the instruments and the product because of this preset, maybe I need to change careers lol

I really enjoyed your recordings, and I must say that your preset is making me very tempted to buy Pianoteq. However, I cannot try your preset in the Pianoteq demo because it uses one piano (Erard 1922) that is a KIVIR-project free piano to pianoteq owners but that cannot be installed in the demo (I know this is a bit absurd: the paid pianos are available in the demo, but the free pianos are not... Go figure...). Whenever I attempt to install your preset, only the Bluethner and the Bechstein sound... Unless someone can explain me how to install the kivir project in the demo. BTW, it is the Kivir Erard 1922, correct? Because in your first post you say "1926 Erard", and I cannot find that piano in the pianoteq list of instruments.

I assume that there are no Kremsegg piano that may be a suitable substitute for the Erard, is there?

Thanks for your great preset.
I have tested your Real Steinway 2 and like it a lot, only the two highest octaves or the 20 highest keys don't sound well to me and I can't explain exactly what I mean, it's just not very close to the real pianos I know.
Are you ok with the high keys?
Sorry, I have not read all posts and maybe problem has been already solved meanwhile or I have an old version? I have to add that I only have Pianoteq 7 Standard. Great job, though and thanks.

I've been working on a lot of issues, as well as learning more about how these overtones actually evolve over time. 

I've made a more realistic piano since these, but right now it had some overtones causing some regions to sound a bit mediocre.

Honestly, the overtone editing system in pro leaves some things to be desired, i.e. I want a note edit curve for a specific overtone, rather than a spread of overtones for a single key, which would be the last adjustment you'd do.

Anyway I deleted that preset but uploaded it again within a hybrid with the Bluethner, so it is still there within that morph piano.   
Basically I don't want to spam the FXP section with my experiments. I am pleased with this latest morph.

This possibly doesn't belong in your thread here, but it also has tamed brilliance so it might appeal. I'm not pretending it still sounds like a Steinway.

Just enable the EQ curves for a more brilliant sound - season to taste!

Do you still hear that problem to a certain (lesser) extent even with your own presets?
Or do you consider it all but eradicated in your own presets?

Perhaps you hear that problem even worse with the presets I recently uploaded in the fxp section?

I hear it even in my own presets. It's better or worse depending on the piano, but the Steinway Model Ds have it the worst.

One hypothesis I have is that all sound is getting sort of superimposed through one source and you get moments of resonance where the amplitude of the sound wave constructively interferes for a couple moments near the beginning of the key strike, i.e. hammer noise function really does add to this quite a lot. Like, a real piano these sounds are coming from different locations and ha e somewhat diminished when they reach your ear. Tho, IRL Steinway Ds can also hurt your ears simply because they are loud as hell. Might also be rendering artifacts, tho I hear it even in rendered demos.

I think that the hammer noise seems to hurt the sound more than it helps for most presets, i.e. hardness makes the sound sharp enough as is, and sounds more real to my ears.

Hardness will increase this effect, increasing hammer noise increases the effect, increasing cutoff increases the effect.

Perhaps you hear that problem even worse with the presets I recently uploaded in the fxp section?

Opus32 wrote:

I find that in using the main Steinway presets, I tend to run into too many metallic overtones, as well as nasally sounding regions that sound harsh. I also find that it absolutely destroys my eardrums to play the pianoteq preset Steinway because of the metallic overtones being loud.

I wonder if the simulation causes se random superpositions that are really high in amplitude but hard to register audibly.

Ultimately, this is a work in process yet for me.

"Destroys my eardrums"!
Quite some claim.

Out of curiosity what loudspeaker monitors are you using?

I've actually used several now at this point. It tends to be when playing loudly, of course.

Speakers work better to reduce it. I still get some effect from any piano, but it's most noticeable on the Steinway Ds for me, particularly the New York one.

The Steinway B has a lot less of it, it's still there but far less noticeable.

I can go listen to a classically recorded piano, even after a long session on pianoteq without this problem, on any speakers or headphones.

I find that playing the NY Steinway has a similar impact on my ears as a rock concert. There may be some sensitization, but I can listen to lots of music for a long time without the same issue.

I also find an issue of clarity, if that makes sense. I need to get a spectrogram to compare pianoteq to a classical recording and look for these overtones. I find I have to turn the volume up more on pianoteq higher to feel like I am hearing the "same thing" as a classical recording.

Don't get me wrong, I love the software. I spent 14 hours in a single day working on that Steinway preset I made, and gave spent many hours many days working on it and other presets.

I just suspect that there's more work that can be done with it, and I am perfectly willing to contribute to that.

I find that in using the main Steinway presets, I tend to run into too many metallic overtones, as well as nasally sounding regions that sound harsh. I also find that it absolutely destroys my eardrums to play the pianoteq preset Steinway because of the metallic overtones being loud.

I wonder if the simulation causes se random superpositions that are really high in amplitude but hard to register audibly.

Ultimately, this is a work in process yet for me.

"Destroys my eardrums"!
Quite some claim.

Out of curiosity what loudspeaker monitors are you using?

Hi all,
the sound is beautiful. But can anyone please advise why Olga Kern's performance sounds brighter (in fact, much brighter) to my ear than the first piece on SoundCloud in the first post. Am I comparing the live performance to a wrong piece, or do I have a wrong ear, or is it ambience that makes it different? Once again, Opus32's sound is wonderful, a soft and rich Steinway, I just cannot liken it to this live playing, which is fairly bright.
P.S. I used Sennheiser HD215 headphones to compare.

Hi Klest,

My intention with the comparison was to show that it sounds like it's  closer to the same sound area as a Steinway. The IRL one does sound brighter, part of that has to do with the recording as well. Brightness I've sound more recently is perhaps too ambiguous of a word, but seems to mostly be caused by a ratio of lower to higher overtones. A wider unison also tends to cause more brightness, as well as less falloff of higher overtones.

One challenge is that as you add overtones, there's more that can go wrong.

The main point was to show that this is something that doesn't sound as good as a live recording, but one that I am willing to compare side by side to show the gaps.

I find that in using the main Steinway presets, I tend to run into too many metallic overtones, as well as nasally sounding regions that sound harsh. I also find that it absolutely destroys my eardrums to play the pianoteq preset Steinway because of the metallic overtones being loud.

I wonder if the simulation causes se random superpositions that are really high in amplitude but hard to register audibly.

Ultimately, this is a work in process yet for me.