I love Pianoteq and all the pianos, the harpsichords are okay, but the clavichord is the worst. To me the instrument sounds wrong and no matter what settings and adjustments I have made, I can't get the instrument to sound like a clavichord. Maybe this is because I have a real instrument and played it quite often until recently due to the instrument needing some repairs that I can't afford at the moment.

I agree with your concerns about how the Pianoteq Neupert Clavichord simulation sounds relative to what we both expect of a clavichord.  However, it appears that the issue is not with how accurate Pianoteq's simulation is, as much as which particular clavichord they chose to simulate.

At least based upon https://youtu.be/dHbXn8wM_-Q?si=FtwFk2Iqu8XcLhbS, Pianoteq's simulation seems, to my ears at least, to be ... well, not perfect, but actually respectably accurate!

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...Accomp.mp3

Other Examples:

https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=9881

Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:

Hello everyone!
Some of you know that I like to experiment all the time. Had to give this Neupert ”problem” a shot 
Ar first, I like Neupert as it is, and I think we can’t get it to sound as the video examples above.
Keep in mind video was recorded in a concert hall. (Clavichords were usually played in domestic rooms with very different, much warmer acoustics).

And, because, clavichord in video is Johann Paul Kraemer and sons, Göttingen, 1803 - and Modartt modeled clavichord Neupert (1941) which is based on a "Modell Philipp Emanuel Bach” provided by the Kremsegg Schloss Museum (Kremsmünster, Austria).

We can’t create the room acustic in the video. But, asking for more room, air, to the instrument, I modified Neupert and made a short recording.
And I think Bach would have fun reading this thread 
Enjoy,
Stig

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...eupert.mp3

Love your recording, Stig! So beautiful! And I agree that Bach would love this thread.

Barbara, you have my deepest thanks. Glad you like the sound. I hope it is rich in overtones, but people hear different for many reasons (which I have described in another thread).

Best wishes,

Stig

Hello everyone!
Some of you know that I like to experiment all the time. Had to give this Neupert ”problem” a shot 
Ar first, I like Neupert as it is, and I think we can’t get it to sound as the video examples above.
Keep in mind video was recorded in a concert hall. (Clavichords were usually played in domestic rooms with very different, much warmer acoustics).

And, because, clavichord in video is Johann Paul Kraemer and sons, Göttingen, 1803 - and Modartt modeled clavichord Neupert (1941) which is based on a "Modell Philipp Emanuel Bach” provided by the Kremsegg Schloss Museum (Kremsmünster, Austria).

We can’t create the room acustic in the video. But, asking for more room, air, to the instrument, I modified Neupert and made a short recording.
And I think Bach would have fun reading this thread 
Enjoy,
Stig

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...eupert.mp3

Love your recording, Stig! So beautiful! And I agree that Bach would love this thread.

There is only one clavichord.

When you search "clavichord" in google, the results show "harpsichord."

The attack is always too high. The distinctiveness and nuance is not there. Disagree and you're kidding yourself.

There is an option for impulse response so there is almost no reason a more proper clavichord can not be modeled

Create a clavichord that sounds like Joan Benson in 1962.

https://www.earlymusicamerica.org/web-a...-champion/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VcWsWe...channel%29

Here is a modified version of the Lautenwerk (or Lautenwerck) settings that were posted here:

https://forum.modartt.com//file/9884fumi

https://forum.modartt.com//download.php?id=4586

I guess it sounds more like a Lautenwerk than a clavichord.
I added a slight bit of aftertouch, which probably only makes sense for the clavichord.

That's really close, Allain.

https://forum.modartt.com//file/9884fumi

https://forum.modartt.com//download.php?id=4586

I guess it sounds more like a Lautenwerk than a clavichord.
I added a slight bit of aftertouch, which probably only makes sense for the clavichord.

Try using the "Pinch Harmonic Pedal"

Thanks, I'll give that a try as well.

With various combinations, we may eventually come up with that magic combination that may come close.

jcitron wrote:

How did your results come out? I think I know what the problem is with the model. The Neupert's sound is too round. Pianos have a round and smooth sound-shape without the initial attack, which has been eliminated more and more by the big soft fluffy hammers. If we are able to get a sharp attack at the beginning that is smoothed out with the overtones like a piano, combine that with the ethereal open sound, that can't be described, we may have a clavichord!

I made a couple of FXP files and loaded them in the FXP Corner.

https://forum.modartt.com//file/4eldpkxq
https://forum.modartt.com//file/ofa1ul2

Thanks, I'll check them out. :-)

I love Pianoteq and all the pianos, the harpsichords are okay, but the clavichord is the worst. To me the instrument sounds wrong and no matter what settings and adjustments I have made, I can't get the instrument to sound like a clavichord. Maybe this is because I have a real instrument and played it quite often until recently due to the instrument needing some repairs that I can't afford at the moment.

The instrument is very, very soft-sounding due to how it works and this I think is part of the problem as well as the uniqueness of its sound, which is a cross between a pianoforte, guitar, and harpsichord at the same time. This unique instrument's sound is produced by small metal plates called tangents that are mounted directly into the ends of the keys and serve two purposes:

1) They produce the sound by striking the string when the key is depressed.
2) Determine the pitch of the string.

The tangent serves as a stop or fret and the length of the string between the tangent and the crossing of the string at the bridge against the bridge pin determines the pitch.

The listing cloth, or strips of felt placed to the left of the tangents is used to provide a bit of downward pressure against the bridge by binding the strings tightly and also stop the strings from vibrating on the "wrong" side of the tangent.

With this setup in mind, there are two kinds of clavichords and a hybrid of sorts. The earliest instruments were fretted, meaning more than one note shared a pair of strings. Remember how the tangents determine the pitch? A single pair of strings then can be shared by multiple keys and on an instrument such as this, these were called triple-fretted instruments. As time went on, the unfretted instruments were developed around 1743 or thereabouts due to music becoming more and more complex. With a B, C, and C# keys, and other combinations throughout the keyboard, all sharing a pair of strings, this made chords impossible.

Remember the listing cloth and its purpose? There exists an instrument called a clavichord d'Amore. This instrument has strings that are struck in their exact centers of their length and this produces the most beautiful sound.

Anyway, back to our issue. The Neupert instrument doesn't sound right and sounds more like an electric guitar. For some reason, it's missing the overtones, and ethereal sound that a clavichord makes.

Here's a real instrument from 1802.

https://youtu.be/38hgCCoGxgE

This recording has been amplified substantially from what a clavichord sounds like, but the mic setup is good here and captures the sound pretty well, albeit, a bit louder than for real. Note the really, really soft sound here before the camera moves in close. That's what the clavichord really sounds like to someone sitting away from the keyboard.

https://youtu.be/yrE0Tb2SVLI

For someone sitting at the instrument and playing, the clavichord can be quite loud and this is why it became a favored practice and domestic instrument. Its beautiful unique soft sound can become quite percussive and loud when the environment is very soft. Playing a clavichord at 3:00 am when there's little outside ambient noise, no TVs cars, and other distractions, is not unlike playing a pianoforte. Bach, Scarlatti, Mozart, Haydn, and even early Beethoven works (Yes Beethoven owned a clavichord too!) come alive in a totally different fashion than they ever do on a pianoforte.

Now, if Modartt can come even close to this someday, I would be doing dances and jigs in my room!

Try using the "Pinch Harmonic Pedal"

How did your results come out? I think I know what the problem is with the model. The Neupert's sound is too round. Pianos have a round and smooth sound-shape without the initial attack, which has been eliminated more and more by the big soft fluffy hammers. If we are able to get a sharp attack at the beginning that is smoothed out with the overtones like a piano, combine that with the ethereal open sound, that can't be described, we may have a clavichord!

I made a couple of FXP files and loaded them in the FXP Corner.

https://forum.modartt.com//file/4eldpkxq
https://forum.modartt.com//file/ofa1ul2

As for your comment on 'attack' of the notes, that's one of the things that has been improved through the versions in the Pianoteq modeling, but has been out of the control of users other than for hammer hardness, hammer sound, and some 'tricks' such as that which I mentioned with the mallet bounce settings.  Perhaps it's in the future plans for Philippe and company to provide us with modifiable controls for note attack, but I will defer to them for such future features.

Here's my clumsy attempt at a different clavichord setting...

Neupert Lute Factory Settings - JS Bach Fantasia in Cm

Neupert Lute Smilie Settings - JS Bach Fantasia in Cm

jcitron wrote:

Anyway, back to our issue. The Neupert instrument doesn't sound right and sounds more like an electric guitar. For some reason, it's missing the overtones, and ethereal sound that a clavichord makes.

Here's a real instrument from 1802.
https://youtu.be/38hgCCoGxgE

Is it possible to record each note (in one recording ) from your actual clavichord?
It's hard to tell what the sound is like from the videos, like pitch, sound speed, duration, etc. These are the things I hear when I listen to sounds.

I've had a go myself.

How did your results come out? I think I know what the problem is with the model. The Neupert's sound is too round. Pianos have a round and smooth sound-shape without the initial attack, which has been eliminated more and more by the big soft fluffy hammers. If we are able to get a sharp attack at the beginning that is smoothed out with the overtones like a piano, combine that with the ethereal open sound, that can't be described, we may have a clavichord!

I wish I could sample my instrument, but my instrument is in need of repairs. The bridge lifted from the soundboard, flipped on its side and cracked into 3 pieces! I cried, really, really cried when that happened!!! The strings have been removed and a new bridge awaits reinstallation along with its 126 strings. Being a brand-new bridge, I need to install the bridge pins and match the scaling exactly like the old one using a gauge and marking tool, remove the keyboard, use a clamp and block to hold the bridge in place for a couple of days, then go about restringing and reinstalling the listing cloth.

What happened was the bridge, we found out, was always warped and was never glued down completely. When my brother and I examined the bottom of the bridge snapped bridge, and the soundboard where it was glued to, there were many places with zero glue and only bare wood.

I bought this instrument used in 2006 for a big sum from a used instrument dealer and the instrument always would randomly snap strings. I had C1 to g3 restrung twice at $650 each time and I also did it myself once as well as replaced a few strings here and there, which is an awful chore. The instrument would be tuned, sound great and then I would open the lid and find a string snapped somewhere which happened overnight. The instrument also never stayed in tune and would stretch upwards in pitch all the time throughout the treble and I ended up tuning the clavichord down to A=410 instead of at A=415 where it wasn't happy. That helped a bit, but contributed to the bridge lifting off because there was less downward pressure of the strings. Even with the problems, I played the instrument constantly and enjoyed it while it was tuned, but then after all these years, the instrument dates back to the mid-1980s, it failed completely and now it's where I am now.