Not sure, this utility may do essentially the same thing as Springbeats VelPro.

johanibraaten wrote:

Hi.

This is a very interesting thread, I have a sort of a velocity issue myself that I posted in a new thread but maybe this is a good place to search som answers:)   I'm looking for a way to adjust some kind of "global velocity balance" where it would be possible balance how easy it is to reach the higher/lower velocity levels in Pianoteq in different regions of the keyed. I'm not searching for a note-per-note edit, just a simple way, a slider or a wheel, where you can balance this. On my controller, the highest velocity level I can reach is about 120 in the treble and around 110 in the bass. It would be nice to be able to balance this in a simple way. Maybe some Pianoteq has this function built in that I don't know about? Instead I can for example adjust the velocity curve for the lower/mid region, which can give a little harsh treble, and then compensate with adjusting hammer hardness/volume/dynamics in the note-per-note edit. This works fine but it would be nice with a simple balance slider. Does anyone have any suggestions?

VelPro a Springbeats product comes recommended by julien, one of the administrators: https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php...55#p956855.

It permits individual key velocities.

I suggest visit the Springbeats website: https://springbeats.com/velpro/.

Hi Amen Ptah Ra

That looks like a great product that might solve my problem. I will try it out as soon as I can, thank you!

Hi johan,

if I understand, that seems like a task suited to the 'dynamics' settings in note-edit, in tandem with some velocity curve alterations.

It's quite easy, not necessary to spend much time, and don't need to manually edit all notes one-by-one.

It's very quick to create raised and lowered sections as you describe (for any range) by instantly dragging 'control notes' left/right/up/down. That way, you can lower dynamics (forces same velocity to expand upwards the note force), or raise dynamics for trebles (lowering their reach a little. That should work out as a start point, if your curve is set to capture 120 as max velocity.

If want, you can copy the line of text below and right-click to paste it into the velocity pane on the front of the interface to save having to manually make it yourself.

Velocity = [0, 24, 95, 120; 0, 27, 97, 127]

Just a hunch that curve may give you an OK starting point, but those 2 things together should allow you to find the right sensation of velocity for the target ranges. The dynamics will compress or expand the velocity in those ranges.

Definitely, you may want larger or more subtle changes - or quite different numbers and lines to suit exactly your needs.

Really hope this helps.

Hi Qexl.

I have tried what you suggested and I think this might be the best way to deal with the problem within Pianoteq. The problem is, if I'm correct, that expanding the dynamics doesn't expand the timbre shift. It does help to reach the same volumes across the keybed but the treble still "opens up" more easily. I think it’s possible to compensate for that to some degree with the "hammer hardness"  in the note edit though. Thank you for your help.

Hi.

This is a very interesting thread, I have a sort of a velocity issue myself that I posted in a new thread but maybe this is a good place to search som answers:)   I'm looking for a way to adjust some kind of "global velocity balance" where it would be possible balance how easy it is to reach the higher/lower velocity levels in Pianoteq in different regions of the keyed. I'm not searching for a note-per-note edit, just a simple way, a slider or a wheel, where you can balance this. On my controller, the highest velocity level I can reach is about 120 in the treble and around 110 in the bass. It would be nice to be able to balance this in a simple way. Maybe some Pianoteq has this function built in that I don't know about? Instead I can for example adjust the velocity curve for the lower/mid region, which can give a little harsh treble, and then compensate with adjusting hammer hardness/volume/dynamics in the note-per-note edit. This works fine but it would be nice with a simple balance slider. Does anyone have any suggestions?

VelPro a Springbeats product comes recommended by julien, one of the administrators: https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php...55#p956855.

It permits individual key velocities.

I suggest visit the Springbeats website: https://springbeats.com/velpro/.

if I understand, that seems like a task suited to the 'dynamics' settings in note-edit, in tandem with some velocity curve alterations.

It's quite easy, not necessary to spend much time, and don't need to manually edit all notes one-by-one.

It's very quick to create raised and lowered sections as you describe (for any range) by instantly dragging 'control notes' left/right/up/down. That way, you can lower dynamics (forces same velocity to expand upwards the note force), or raise dynamics for trebles (lowering their reach a little. That should work out as a start point, if your curve is set to capture 120 as max velocity.

If want, you can copy the line of text below and right-click to paste it into the velocity pane on the front of the interface to save having to manually make it yourself.

Velocity = [0, 24, 95, 120; 0, 27, 97, 127]

Just a hunch that curve may give you an OK starting point, but those 2 things together should allow you to find the right sensation of velocity for the target ranges. The dynamics will compress or expand the velocity in those ranges.

Definitely, you may want larger or more subtle changes - or quite different numbers and lines to suit exactly your needs.

Really hope this helps.

This is a very interesting thread, I have a sort of a velocity issue myself that I posted in a new thread but maybe this is a good place to search som answers:)   I'm looking for a way to adjust some kind of "global velocity balance" where it would be possible balance how easy it is to reach the higher/lower velocity levels in Pianoteq in different regions of the keyed. I'm not searching for a note-per-note edit, just a simple way, a slider or a wheel, where you can balance this. On my controller, the highest velocity level I can reach is about 120 in the treble and around 110 in the bass. It would be nice to be able to balance this in a simple way. Maybe Pianoteq has this function built in that I don't know about? Instead I can for example adjust the velocity curve for the lower/mid region, which can give a little harsh treble, and then compensate with adjusting hammer hardness/volume/dynamics in the note-per-note edit. This works fine but it would be nice with a simple balance slider. Does anyone have any suggestions?

While on my mind - I often like to perform (with a view to exporting to audio) using a player type preset, and then after the MIDI is done, select a recording type preset and make edits to bring it to its best final form. Apart from all other editable things, this usually includes velocity curve tweaks (if just wanting a little more or less tonal effect in different velocities). Saving these curves gives me a nice library of curves to swap in and out if I'm looking for the right response from my dpaino for a given piano/preset combo suited to a desired outcome.

After monkeying with dpianos so long, I really now don't believe there's really any perfect correct curve per se. We all have different personal equations for mf or fff etc. - and this alters with repertoire and so on - but maybe because I see things from an audio perspective more than a pure pianist-only POV - but hope it's useful to throw this in for food for thought. To me, without question, each piano/preset makes me want to "feel" it differently, under my fingers. I like some latency too - this goes hand in hand with what we 'feel' as much as how it helps us get into a comfortable creative stride.

After another few days of testing multiple velocity curves and multiple settings, I must say there's something really nice and realistic about playing the New-York Steinway Model D (Ptq 7) in wide-player mode, after cropping both ends of the curve by 8, on a Roland PHA-IV (namely, an RD-88) with default velocity curve. No need to curve the curve, I'm talking about a straight line from 8 to 120, as the PHA-IV basically hardly gets down to less than 8 or goes up to more than 120. On top of feeling natural (quite more so than with an exponential curve), it also has the advantage of not distorting the natural response of the keyboard too much: when you play with an exponential curve and, for some reason, get rid of it after recording, for instance in order to use another virtual instrument, the resulting velocities often don't make sense, which is much less the case if you linearly re-open the range from 8-120 to 0-128. Another possible thing to do is to crop 12 at the bottom and 8 at the top, which makes PP's a little harder to achieve and so the whole feeling closer to a real piano, though that means slightly moving away from the keyboard's natural response, but is still more natural than an exponential curve. All that being, of course, in my humble opinion.

That's interesting, because I recently did something very similar with an unweighted keyboard (Acorn Masterkey) which I sometimes use for quick sketches. Cropping the extreme velocities at each end actually makes it reasonably acceptable, not for 'best' playing, but OK for doodling!

YvesTh wrote:

Adjusting the velocity curve is very subjective if you don't have the real piano at hand. One way to control this curve would be for pianoteq to provide us with the theoretical velocity for its pianos as a function of the velocity of pressing the piano key or the time the key is pressed (10mm stroke). For example: :
0.25 s for a midi velocity of 20
0.15 s for a velocity midi of 40
0.08 s for a velocity midi of 100
This would allow you to compare to your own keyboard and adjust the curve the closest to the original instrument.
Pianoteq, do you have these values please ?
One could even dream of having the speed/velocity ratios for each of the 88 keys of the original piano. But that's a lot to ask.

Basically this is a good idea, but for being able to reproduce the real piano, you would need additional information like the SPL at that given velocity.
Sounds like one more parameter? Unfortunately not. You need to specify where the SPL is measured, with which weighting and method and so on.
Maybe that is more something for Pianoteq 8: a virtual SPL meter or SPL readout at the mic positions.

For me SPL is independant of what I want To say. My idea is to know the ratio between the velocity of the finger, the midi velocity (1-127) and the velocity of the hammer on the string. It's the velocity of the hammer witch create the personnality of the sound of the string and create with the harmony table the real sound of the piano. The SPL is for me on another level witch depends of mic positions, headphone or monitors volume and other parameters of your room, and is independant of the pianoteq modelisation of the piano. Sorry if I am not very clear.

Adjusting the velocity curve is very subjective if you don't have the real piano at hand. One way to control this curve would be for pianoteq to provide us with the theoretical velocity for its pianos as a function of the velocity of pressing the piano key or the time the key is pressed (10mm stroke). For example: :
0.25 s for a midi velocity of 20
0.15 s for a velocity midi of 40
0.08 s for a velocity midi of 100
This would allow you to compare to your own keyboard and adjust the curve the closest to the original instrument.
Pianoteq, do you have these values please ?
One could even dream of having the speed/velocity ratios for each of the 88 keys of the original piano. But that's a lot to ask.

Basically this is a good idea, but for being able to reproduce the real piano, you would need additional information like the SPL at that given velocity.
Sounds like one more parameter? Unfortunately not. You need to specify where the SPL is measured, with which weighting and method and so on.
Maybe that is more something for Pianoteq 8: a virtual SPL meter or SPL readout at the mic positions.

YvesTh wrote:

Adjusting the velocity curve is very subjective if you don't have the real piano at hand. One way to control this curve would be for pianoteq to provide us with the theoretical velocity for its pianos as a function of the velocity of pressing the piano key or the time the key is pressed (10mm stroke). For example: :
0.25 s for a midi velocity of 20
0.15 s for a velocity midi of 40
0.08 s for a velocity midi of 100
This would allow you to compare to your own keyboard and adjust the curve the closest to the original instrument.
Pianoteq, do you have these values please ?
One could even dream of having the speed/velocity ratios for each of the 88 keys of the original piano. But that's a lot to ask.

Suggestion sent.

There is a very interesting file on this pdf link :
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01193708/document

Adjusting the velocity curve is very subjective if you don't have the real piano at hand. One way to control this curve would be for pianoteq to provide us with the theoretical velocity for its pianos as a function of the velocity of pressing the piano key or the time the key is pressed (10mm stroke). For example: :
0.25 s for a midi velocity of 20
0.15 s for a velocity midi of 40
0.08 s for a velocity midi of 100
This would allow you to compare to your own keyboard and adjust the curve the closest to the original instrument.
Pianoteq, do you have these values please ?
One could even dream of having the speed/velocity ratios for each of the 88 keys of the original piano. But that's a lot to ask.

Suggestion sent.

Adjusting the velocity curve is very subjective if you don't have the real piano at hand. One way to control this curve would be for pianoteq to provide us with the theoretical velocity for its pianos as a function of the velocity of pressing the piano key or the time the key is pressed (10mm stroke). For example: :
0.25 s for a midi velocity of 20
0.15 s for a velocity midi of 40
0.08 s for a velocity midi of 100
This would allow you to compare to your own keyboard and adjust the curve the closest to the original instrument.
Pianoteq, do you have these values please ?
One could even dream of having the speed/velocity ratios for each of the 88 keys of the original piano. But that's a lot to ask.

This is a very good idea. I'm going to send them an e-mail right away and copy-paste your post. And hopefully we'll see some evolution in an update of PTq 7 very soon.