I've gotten a basic FXP ready--sorry for the delay. The CFIII is a bit of puzzle, because there isn't much technical information published and accessible online about it (certainly when compared to the CFX); there aren't many examples of the instrument that are recorded in ideal conditions (and guaranteed not to be the CFIIIS)--and the examples that are available online vary significantly (probably because the differences between the CFIII and CFIIIS aren't obvious); and it has a very unusual scaling that was changed significantly for the CFX.
Because of older Steinway Patents (I believe) regarding placement of the bass bridge, other piano makers have had to come up with novel solutions for the design/scaling of bass strings to match the general sound of a Steinway D without replicating the actual positioning of the bass bridge on the soundboard. I suspect that Baldwin, for example, used triple wound the bass string to give greater strength to sound and to compensate for the lack of kinetic sound energy transfer from the bridge to the soundboard because the bridge had to be positioned differently from the Centennial Steinway design. This may also be why Mason and Hamblin have a different structural support for the underside of the instrument that supposedly distributes sound energy more efficiently or why Bosendorfer uses "resonating" cases, and so on...
Yamaha used several unique tricks for replicating the Steinway approach without replicating it and for resolving the "bass-tenor break" between the two bridges which is usually audible in badly designed or badly maintained pianos. Yamaha typically uses a single bridge instead of separate bass and tenor bridges. This I suspect, in addition to being something they can patent and perfect themselves, is to help increase the overall area of energy transfer to more of the soundboard for the whole instrument, giving the bass (and entire range, for that matter) greater strength and power more quickly to more remote parts of the soundboard, because the bridge can't sit exactly where the Steinway Patents have it which is considered--if I recall correctly--something of a sweet spot for resonance. Yamaha also, only for the CFIII (not for the C7 or CFX or any other instrument that I'm aware of), extended the trichord range of the piano seven notes lower than usual (taking the trichords across the traditional bridge break) to unify the sound of those notes better.
However, both tricks bring disadvantages: the single piece bridge changes the color slightly of the sound (making it slightly more muted than a traditional Steinway sound) and it doesn't eliminate the sound of the bridge break, it only diminishes it. The latter trick gives the instrument a stronger (arguably warmer) mid-bass, but the added strings for extending the trichord range of the piano appear to force the lowest bass strings even farther away from the ideal energy transfer point that creates the "Steinway sound" in bass strings. This quiets those strings somewhat, and then the contrast with the louder trichords in the mid-bass makes them seem even quieter. The net result is an instrument that sounds like a concert grand from the mid-bass to the high tenor but sounds like a smaller instrument (like a Steinway B or Yamaha C7) in the lowest bass range. (Hence why I first thought it was a C7 not a CFIII while listening to it.)
The good news for the FXP is that the new resonance eqs allow for some compensation for the unusual trichord scaling, but the bad news is that with the COVID situation, I would need to test a CFIII to get precise results, which won't be possible for the foreseeable future. While I'm generally pleased that I've matched the general tone color of the CFIII in the preset, it's not nearly as precise as it could be if I could spend a few hours testing one. Also, this is a 5 mic preset, so if you want to more closely resemble the Hamelin recording, disable the last three mics, since the first stereo pair will be much closer to the mics and ambient spacing that would have been used in the original recording, but the 5 mics will be nicer for warmer recordings. Any mid to large recording room or small to medium hall reverb will work nicely with the preset, if you don't have access to the old convolutions files I use in my presets.
To add to the general confusion about the CFIII, it was replaced by the CFIIIS in 1990, and Yamaha document isn't entirely clear what tonal, scaling, and structural differences were included in that redesign, and many people posting about the CFIII will group it together with the CFIIIS as though they are functionally identical, which in my experience isn't the case. The new CFX is also completely different and purported solves the quiet low bass problem (but I don't know if it still has any of the trichord scaling or other novel features of the CFIII). Both have a Yamaha sound and Yamaha-style of action (long keysticks, fast key drop times, and high damper efficiency), but they sound totally different.
]]>You're welcome AM20046, it was a lot of fun.
AM20046 wrote:If only I wish I learned on how to make my own FXP
This link is a really good place to learn a bit about it, it's the "Pianoteq Workshops" page.
It shows 3 different piano sounds being emulated point by point, with audio samples to listen to with a click and final FXPs to download.
Not saying it's real simple but you can get a lot from sticking with it
Thanks for showing me that. Now I'll try my best to make a custom FXP.
]]>If only I wish I learned on how to make my own FXP
This link is a really good place to learn a bit about it, it's the "Pianoteq Workshops" page.
It shows 3 different piano sounds being emulated point by point, with audio samples to listen to with a click and final FXPs to download.
Not saying it's real simple but you can get a lot from sticking with it
]]>Sorry for the chain of posts. I remembered a recording I had of Jack playing the Concerto on a Steinway B, and it sounds much closer to the recording than the Steinway D.
So I can say with fair certainty that it's a 1980s Yamaha C7. I will create an FXP based on my old Yamaha CFX emulation to try to match the recording and the scaling/size of the C7.
It could be a few days or weeks before it's finished and ready for upload. AM20046, Is that alright? Any other details about the recording that people can find will also continue to be useful.
You can feel free to make it for me. Thanks. I hope I can see your best at recreating that.
If only I wish I learned on how to make my own FXP.....
I had worked on the bones of that FXP on a different piano - but the video clicked and I tried freezing parameters (except string length) and tried it on the YC5 - really liked it - sure more work could be done to taste etc.. but just glad it's enjoyed.
Cheers to you - good to see you!
]]>Love Alkan.
Fabulous thread, thanks so much to all.
YC5 - BOK Complex Stage CDBc Based on Grand YC5
Excerpt - Chopin - Ballade No. 1 G Min Op 23 - 2013 Christopher Son Richardson SemiFinal.xp.mp3
Excerpt - Chopin - Nocturne D-fl Major Op 27 No 2 - 2006 Rui Shi Recital.xp.mp3
{Edit to fix link}
]]>So I can say with fair certainty that it's a 1980s Yamaha C7. I will create an FXP based on my old Yamaha CFX emulation to try to match the recording and the scaling/size of the C7.
It could be a few days or weeks before it's finished and ready for upload. AM20046, Is that alright? Any other details about the recording that people can find will also continue to be useful.
]]>