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		<title><![CDATA[Modartt user forum - Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?]]></title>
		<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=7074</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?.]]></description>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=966796#p966796</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Unless I&#039;m wrong, this YouTube video:<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlvWqZgdtyU"><span style="color: blue">&quot;Tour of the sounds of the Cavaille-Coll organ, St Sernin, toulouse&quot;</span></a><br />is about the same instrument. It seems to be very nice indeed. As the title suggests, this is mostly a tonal demonstration, with some improvisations, of some of the registers and register combinations of the Cavaillé-Coll organ in St-Sernin Basilica, Toulouse.</p><p>While it&#039;s hard for my untrained ear to compare the degree of sonic similarity between this organ and the default Organteq instrument, the Cornet mixture, demonstrated around 13:15 sounds, to me anyway, very much like the inspiration for the Cornet V in Organteq.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Daniel W)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2020 17:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=966796#p966796</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964492#p964492</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>bm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Shortly after acquiring the Organteq 1.02 version, I had to leave for Toulouse to move my student daughter&#039;s apartment, now on an internship in another city. As this move unfortunately took place after the end of the &quot;Toulouse les orgues&quot; 2019 festival, I only had to settle for last Sunday&#039;s mass to discover and listen to the magnificent Cavalle-Coll organs of the Saint-Sernin basilica , organs which apparently Organteq was partly inspired by.<br />Not having been able to bring these organs back in my luggage, or enlarge my house accordingly, I tried to watch stop by stop what was still missing in Organteq so that I could completely reproduce all the stops of this magnificent instrument.<br />(I should point out that the stops already existing in Organteq are - in my opinion - already satisfactory)<br /><a href="https://orguesfrance.com/Images/ToulouseStSernin3.JPG">https://orguesfrance.com/Images/ToulouseStSernin3.JPG</a><br />A list of Saint-Sernin organ stops is available on the website: <a href="https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgues/france/toulousess.html">https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgue...usess.html</a><br />By trying to make a comparison with the existing stops of Organteq (except for errors, not being specialist on this subject - the rectification being welcome) I arrive at the following observation:</p><p>Bruno</p></blockquote></div><p>Hi Bruno</p><p>Vous trouverez dans le FXP Corner,&nbsp; des presets que j&#039;ai construits à partir de la liste des jeux de certains orgues historiques (Cliquot, Riepp, Cavaillé-Coll, Dom Bedos de Celles...) Le résultat est plus que satisfaisant (cf mes 3 albums consacrés à Organteq.sur ma page Jamendo (ex: <a href="https://www.jamendo.com/album/190087/organissimo-vol-1-">https://www.jamendo.com/album/190087/organissimo-vol-1-</a> enregistrés avec le preset de l&#039;orgue Cavaillé-Coll de St François de Sales à Lyon)&quot;-Coll)<br />.<br />J&#039;ai essayé, pour bâtir ces presets, d&#039;utiliser au mieux les jeux fournis avec Organteq pour être le plus proche de la composition sonore réelle des instrumentsmais j&#039;ai dû faire des impasses sur les jeux manquants ou parce qu&#039;il n&#039;y avait pas assez de tirants de jeux pour tout mettre.</p><p>Effectivement il manque pas mal de jeux dans Organteq:</p><p>- Flûtes octaviantes de 4&#039; et 2&#039;<br />- Un Larigot 1⅓<br />- Une Tierce 1&#039; 3⁄5<br />- Une Quarte (elle se trouve une quarte au-dessus du nasard, d&#039;où son nom. Elle porte parfois le nom de « flageolet »)<br />- Un Bourdon de 32&#039;<br />- Des trompettes en chamade</p><p>Si l&#039;on&nbsp; disposait d&#039;un panel de jeux plus large, il deviendrait possible de créer des Presets encore plus réalistes</p><p>La flûte harmonique est une création de Cavaillé-Coll. Certains organistes comme le regretté P. Pincemaille sont allés jusqu&#039;à dire qu&#039;il s&#039;agit du plus beau jeu créé par A. Cavaillé-Coll. on le trouve parfois sous la dénomination de Flûte traversière.<br />Pour construire une Flûte harmonique de 8 pieds, on utilise donc des tuyaux construits sur la base d&#039;un 16 pieds. La hauteur de 8 pieds correspond à la hauteur entendue et non à la hauteur réelle des tuyaux.</p><p>Jacques</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (jbuvat)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jan 2020 12:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964492#p964492</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964464#p964464</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Home computer&quot; is not always the case here. Virtual instruments are well used in small, medium and large studios which can have more capabilities to produce low end more accurately... A quality audio interface doesn&#039;t filter low end from speaker outputs. For example, my RME UFX+ goes all the way down to 5 Hz for its speaker outputs... Sure that&#039;s a more expensive one, but their smallest Babyface goes down to 0 Hz actually. See Specs tab, scroll down to DA Line Out section:</p><p><a href="https://www.rme-audio.de/babyface-pro-fs.html">https://www.rme-audio.de/babyface-pro-fs.html</a></p><br /><p>A good audio interface won&#039;t filter the signal unnecessarily, leaving your speakers to do the work as they&#039;re supposed to.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (EvilDragon)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2020 17:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964464#p964464</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964461#p964461</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Excellent research and insight!&nbsp; And I agree that Organteq already has a wonderful tone and stoplist already.&nbsp; I also hope your daughter&#039;s internship goes well!</p><p>There&#039;s no question that the stoplist is incomplete when comparing Organteq 1 and this lovely Cavelle-Coll in Toulouse, but I would like more information from Modartt (or experts in organ design and voicing with better ears than mine) about how nuanced Organteq really is--or can be or will be--when it comes to differences between similarly designed stops from different traditions of voicing.</p><p>For example, the Montre (French), the Diapason (English/American), the Open Diapason (English/American), the Principal (American), the Prinzipal (German), the Small Open Diapason (English), the Main Principal (American), the Octave (American/English), and the Oktave (German) are distinct variations of the same basic stop design implemented slightly differently from builder to builder and from organ to organ--with differences in shape, size, voicing, materials, wind pressure, and balance between other stops.&nbsp; It&#039;s extremely typical here in the US, for organs to have multiples of the same stop built differently (Aoelian-Skinner organs can have at least 5 diapason stops--often on the same division--which have different sounds and properties).&nbsp; In the case of Organteq, a Montre should typically be mellower and softer than most (English, American, and German) Principals, Prinzipals, and Diapasons with the spelling indicating the tradition the stop voicing comes from, but I don&#039;t know how carefully we can read those subtleties into the current Organteq stoplist.</p><p>It&#039;s also very important to note that this particular Toulouse organ contains stops and pipework from the Daublaine-Ducroquet/Daublaine-Callinet organ in 1845 (I don&#039;t know if still has any original 1647 pipes), which also leads to the complexity of many pipe organ stoplists, because builders will keep older pipeworks.&nbsp; This can frequently result in multiple stops of similar design but different tone being part of the same organ over a period of decades.&nbsp; A new stop might be added and made from a different alloy that the new builder favors, while a few damaged pipes are replaced in a near-duplicate stop using the older building materials and techniques to keep the original organ tone as &quot;whole&quot; as possible.&nbsp; In much the same way no two pianos of the same make and model sound and feel truly alike, that problem for organs is exponentially larger!</p><p>I&#039;ve found a few sources that go into more depth on this with better information and clearer examples and explanations, in case others want to explore deeper into this particularly esoteric subject.</p><p>Comparison of types of Diapasons: <a href="https://organforum.com/forums/forum/pipe-organs/classic-church-pipe-organs/44217-what-s-the-difference-between-a-montre-an-open-diapason-and-a-principal-stop">https://organforum.com/forums/forum/pip...cipal-stop</a><br />Another comparison with audio samples: <a href="http://www.organstops.org/o/OpenDiapason.html">http://www.organstops.org/o/OpenDiapason.html</a><br />Organ stop dictionary: <a href="http://www.organstops.org/">http://www.organstops.org/</a><br />Table of organ stops by language: <a href="https://www.die-orgelseite.de/registertabelle_e.htm">https://www.die-orgelseite.de/registertabelle_e.htm</a><br />Excellent bibliography--though mostly out-of-print and extremely rare: <a href="http://www.organstops.org/_apps/Bibliography.html#Williams1">http://www.organstops.org/_apps/Bibliog...#Williams1</a></p><p>There are several styles of subwoofer/loudspeaker which make infrasound practical (though their price-tag is anything but that!), like rotary woofers or transmission line cabinets.&nbsp; However--particularly with the likelihood that nearly any computer would have intermediate hardware that would filter frequencies below 20hz (or even below 50hz)--I&#039;m most interested in the inclusion of 32&#039; for their resultant overtones which are definitely audible.&nbsp; It&#039;s contestable how much of the fundamentals of a 32&#039; (and certainly 48&#039; and 64&#039;) would be heard or wanted in a home computer or home recording setting, but the overtones of 32&#039; are certainly present in recordings and performances, which in my opinion totally justifies their inclusion.&nbsp; Also, I see a viable market for Organteq in public/concert settings and church settings, which are environments where more exotic low-frequency/high-spl subwoofers and technology are usually in place for the electric organ consoles that are already there in many cases.</p><p>I can also vouch that in nearly any concert and church setting--though especially concerts--32&#039; pipes are used constantly.&nbsp; The Aeolian-Skinner organ near my home had to be retrofitted with an additional blower to compensate for &quot;organ sag&quot; during classical and contemporary organ concerts where soloists opened too many 32&#039; pipes at once during big finales.&nbsp; I&#039;ve also seen/heard 32&#039; used regularly in church settings for congregational accompaniment if the venue is large enough.</p><p>It would also be cool to be able to easily swap reed stops into &quot;En chamade.&quot;&nbsp; The functionality is already there in Organteq because we can control per-stop volume, but it would be really nice to have it as a toggle switch in the individual stop settings.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (tmyoung)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2020 12:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964461#p964461</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Will Organteq 1.* become  Saint-Sernin Cavaillé-Coll organ 100%ready ?]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964455#p964455</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Shortly after acquiring the Organteq 1.02 version, I had to leave for Toulouse to move my student daughter&#039;s apartment, now on an internship in another city. As this move unfortunately took place after the end of the &quot;Toulouse les orgues&quot; 2019 festival, I only had to settle for last Sunday&#039;s mass to discover and listen to the magnificent Cavalle-Coll organs of the Saint-Sernin basilica , organs which apparently Organteq was partly inspired by.<br />Not having been able to bring these organs back in my luggage, or enlarge my house accordingly, I tried to watch stop by stop what was still missing in Organteq so that I could completely reproduce all the stops of this magnificent instrument.<br />(I should point out that the stops already existing in Organteq are - in my opinion - already satisfactory)<br /><a href="https://orguesfrance.com/Images/ToulouseStSernin3.JPG">https://orguesfrance.com/Images/ToulouseStSernin3.JPG</a><br />A list of Saint-Sernin organ stops is available on the website: <a href="https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgues/france/toulousess.html">https://www.musiqueorguequebec.ca/orgue...usess.html</a><br />By trying to make a comparison with the existing stops of Organteq (except for errors, not being specialist on this subject - the rectification being welcome) I arrive at the following observation:<br />-<br />*** GALLERY ORGAN: *** <br />** GRAND-ORGUE&nbsp; stop list completeness:<br />Montre 16&#039;: ok (Principal)<br />Bourdon 16&#039;: ok<br />Montre 8&#039;: ok (Principal)<br />Bourdon 8&#039;: ok<br />Flûte harmonique 8&#039; : ok (Flûte traversière)<br />Salicional 8&#039; : Stop Missing <br />Gambe 8&#039; : ok<br />Prestant 4&#039; : ok<br />Flûte octaviante 4&#039; : ok ? (Flûte 4&#039; ?)<br />Quinte 2 2/3&#039; : ok<br />Doublette 2&#039;: ok<br />Fourniture V: ok (Mixture Plein jeu V ?) <br />Grand cornet V: ok ( Cornet&nbsp; CV)<br />Bombarde 16&#039;: ok<br />Trompette 8&#039;: ok<br />Trompette harmonique 8&#039;: Stop Missing ?<br />Clairon 4&#039;: ok<br />Clairon harmonique 4&#039;: Stop Missing ?<br />Clairon-Doublette 2&#039;: Stop Missing ?</p><p>** PEDALE: Stop list completeness:<br />Principal-basse 32&#039; : Stop MISSING<br />Contrebasse 16&#039; : Stop Missing<br />Soubasse 16&#039;: ok (Bourdon 16&#039; ?)<br />Flute 8&#039;: ok<br />Violoncelle 8&#039;: Stop Missing<br />Octave 4&#039;: ok ?&nbsp; (Flute 4&#039; ?)<br />Bombarde 32&#039;: Stop MISSING<br />Bombarde 16&#039;: ok<br />Trompette 8&#039;: ok<br />Clairon 4&#039;: ok</p><p>** POSITIF: Stop list completeness:<br />Montre 8&#039;: ok (Principal)<br />Cor de nuit 8&#039;: Stop Missing<br />Salicional 8&#039; : Stop Missing <br />Unda Maris 8&#039;: Stop Missing (Undulating Salicional)<br />Prestant 4&#039; : ok<br />Flûte DOUCE 4&#039;: ok ? (flûte 4&#039; ?) &lt;&gt; flûte octaviante ? ..<br />Carillon I-III: Stop Missing<br />Trompette 8&#039;: ok<br />Basson-Hautbois 8: Stop Missing&nbsp; (&lt;&gt; Clarinette 8&#039; ?)<br />Clairon 4&#039;:ok</p><p>** RECIT: Stop list completeness:<br />Quintaton 16&#039;: ok<br />Diapason 8: ok ? (principal 8?)<br />Flûte harmonique 8&#039; : ok (Flûte traversière)<br />Viole de gambe 8&#039;: ok ? (gambe 8?)<br />Voix céleste 8&#039;: ok<br />Flûte octaviante 8&#039; : ok ? (Flûte 8&#039; ?)<br />Octavin 2&#039;: ok ? (Doublette 2&#039; ?)<br />Cornet V: ok (Cornet CV)<br />Bombarde 16&#039;: ok<br />Trompette harmonique 8&#039;: Stop Missing ?<br />Clarinette 8&#039; ok<br />Basson-Hautbois 8: Stop Missing&nbsp; (&lt;&gt; Clarinette 8&#039; ?)<br />Voix humaine 8&#039;: ok<br />Clairon harmonique 4&#039;: Stop Missing ?<br />-<br />For the stops used for the sub-bass with the pedals, I tried to check on several recordings of the Organs of Saint-Sernin if notes below the C of 32hz were really used (with a very selective digital filtering below 28hz ).<br />eg: with Michael Murray (Complete Masterworks for Organ by Cesar Franck.)&nbsp; <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COBgiU2SptY">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COBgiU2SptY</a> <br />and Mathieu Jolivet (Nuit de l&#039;Orgue - Festival international Toulouse les Orgues 2015) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm0WIk6UKQA">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm0WIk6UKQA</a><br />The answer seems affirmative, despite the presence of bias with the resonance frequencies specific to the building of the basilica, or the support rods of the microphones? (eg: at 7hz &amp; 11hz)<br />NB: The reproduction of the lowest notes is not a problem with good headphones (Kennerton thror for me), but is more &quot;complicated&quot; on the speaker - even with several subs of 30 cm in diameter with dedicated amplifiers - The most &quot;suitable&quot; solution ( except maybe for the neighbors) would seem to be a 46cm sub in a 0.7 x 0.7 x 2.2m box with an event tuned to 17.88hz. eg: Peerless speaker FSL-1830R09, theoretically with such box: 89db / 1w @ 1m (20hz), still 81db / 1w @ 1m (16hz), 92db / 1w @ 1m from 42hz (according to QS Speakers free calculator software) .. theoretical calculation to be checked in real situations. ... (such a speaker costs 2/3 the price of organteq but it is necessary to add the wood of the box, an amp from 200 to 600 w and an equalizer)</p><p>Bruno</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (bm)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2020 18:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=964455#p964455</guid>
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