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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[Modartt user forum - pppp to ffff]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="https://forum.modartt.com/extern.php?action=feed&amp;tid=6959&amp;type=atom"/>
	<updated>2019-11-24T03:39:01Z</updated>
	<generator>PunBB</generator>
	<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=6959</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963761#p963761"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Thanks groovy, love that Wikipedia page&#039;s mention of the historical uses of fffff and other extreme marks - there&#039;s surely a Spinal Tap fffffffffff joke in this (&quot;These go to 11&quot;) but I won&#039;t go there, he said, after having gone there <i class="far fa-smile smiley"></i> </p><p>Interesting to see Sibelius place the p so high. Pianoteq&#039;s lower numbers definitely seem most rational to me (maybe mostly mf at 73 rather than 80 or 84).</p><p>On standardisation, I&#039;m hopeful VST and keyboard manufacturers might be able to use upcoming MIDI 2 specs to improve things. Don&#039;t know if that would amount to better standardisation per se or just better options and greater depths of realism for any plugged in keyboard - fingers crossed either way.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Qexl]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4633</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-24T03:39:01Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963761#p963761</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963745#p963745"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Qexl wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think of the 8 points from &#039;ppp&#039; to &#039;fff&#039; (3 letters) in the Pianoteq interface are just common convention.</p></blockquote></div><p>Yes, 8 &quot;landmarks&quot; for 7 performable dynamic ranges are used by other music-softwares, found here:<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamics_(music)</a></p><p>The easiest convention seems to be the one, that Pianoteq is using: 7 equidistant dynamic ranges represented linearly by 0-127 velocity values (orange line, now calculated):</p><p><span class="postimg"><img src="https://i.postimg.cc/0jbcJ46r/velocity-force-convention-2.png" alt="https://i.postimg.cc/0jbcJ46r/velocity-force-convention-2.png" title="https://i.postimg.cc/0jbcJ46r/velocity-force-convention-2.png"/></span><br /><span class="postimg"><img src="https://i.postimg.cc/q7DmM0RW/velocity-force-convention-2-table.png" alt="https://i.postimg.cc/q7DmM0RW/velocity-force-convention-2-table.png" title="https://i.postimg.cc/q7DmM0RW/velocity-force-convention-2-table.png"/></span></p><p>Using another convention could have unwanted implications. A piano=p played keyboard in Pianoteq&#039;s convention is represented by a MIDI value 36, while other softwares are &quot;thinking&quot; that higher values, like 48 (Logic Pro) or 61 (Sibelius) represent a p-played keyboard.</p><p>More complicated it gets, when keyboard-builders do not follow the conventional range of 0 - 127. For example not a few keyboards (Kawai, Yamaha, ...) have a shallow range of 25 - 105, which represents it being played ppp - (&quot;pounding&quot;)fff.</p><p>No wonder, that every virtual instrument needs an individual, thoroughly customized velocity curve for every individual MIDI keyboard. Not enough standardisation here.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[groovy]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=1021</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-23T09:59:54Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963745#p963745</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963707#p963707"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Hi groovy, interesting numbers and question. </p><p>Shortest answer I think = arbitrary.</p><p>I think of the 8 points from &#039;ppp&#039; to &#039;fff&#039; (3 letters) in the Pianoteq interface are just common convention.</p><p>A performed dynamic can be marked arbitrarily - but translating for MIDI in turn will certainly also mean we&#039;d each arbitrarily calibrate for intended effect in kind.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Qexl]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4633</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-22T06:55:41Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963707#p963707</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963702#p963702"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Having no time to write a text at the moment, so I just post the pictures (hopefully self-explanatory):<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="https://i.postimg.cc/ZRdMWHzj/PTQ-Velocity-Ruler.jpg" alt="https://i.postimg.cc/ZRdMWHzj/PTQ-Velocity-Ruler.jpg" title="https://i.postimg.cc/ZRdMWHzj/PTQ-Velocity-Ruler.jpg"/></span><br /><span class="postimg"><img src="https://i.postimg.cc/76nStJ3w/pppp-ffff-values.png" alt="https://i.postimg.cc/76nStJ3w/pppp-ffff-values.png" title="https://i.postimg.cc/76nStJ3w/pppp-ffff-values.png"/></span><br /><span class="postimg"><img src="https://i.postimg.cc/J7TkyLK6/velocity-force-convention.png" alt="https://i.postimg.cc/J7TkyLK6/velocity-force-convention.png" title="https://i.postimg.cc/J7TkyLK6/velocity-force-convention.png"/></span></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[groovy]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=1021</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-21T22:50:05Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963702#p963702</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963691#p963691"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Don,<br />nice find! - It just has nothing to do with MIDI.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[groovy]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=1021</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-21T20:18:15Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963691#p963691</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963688#p963688"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Living Pianos:<br />How Loud is Fortississimo FFFF? How Quiet is PPPP?<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u068WWVDbCI">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u068WWVDbCI</a></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[DonSmith]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=736</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-21T20:03:44Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963688#p963688</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963676#p963676"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>It will be interesting to see people&#039;s thoughts on this. The scale that you show is not too far away from one that I figured out from Pianoteq&#039;s velocity display (except that I started at ppp and went to fff, using ranges rather than fixed values). Here&#039;s what I came up with:</p><p>ppp: up to 16<br />pp: 16-32<br />p: 32-48<br />mp: 48-64<br />mf: 64-80<br />f: 80-96<br />ff: 96-112<br />fff: 112-127</p><p>Dynamics are open to interpretation to some extent. For example, at what point does pp become &#039;officially&#039; p? Do feel free to disagree with the values in my list, it&#039;s just my working reference for velocity testing.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[dazric]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=5077</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-21T12:02:33Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963676#p963676</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[pppp to ffff]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963675#p963675"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I saw the following table on the linked site:</p><p><span class="postimg"><img src="http://www.music-software-development.com/images/nuance-velocity-table.jpg" alt="http://www.music-software-development.com/images/nuance-velocity-table.jpg" title="http://www.music-software-development.com/images/nuance-velocity-table.jpg"/></span></p><p>Is this a common MIDI convention? does one exist? Or is it just arbitrary?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[groovy]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=1021</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-11-21T11:07:56Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=963675#p963675</id>
		</entry>
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