I’m just especially curious and extremely anxious as an end user who for recordings wants eventually to find out somehow what specific preamps MODARTT —with its obvious excellent expertise— might suggest you use to get an optimal use out of the industry standard microphones and its pianos modeled inside PIANOTEQ.

You know, what best in terms of preamps compliments the mics specifically on pianos?

Thank you for your input, sincerely.

And, let me welcome you to this forum!

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Helle wrote:

If Pianoteq had similar efx engine or settings, no other products would have any business.

Pianoteq with awesome fx would make the awesome modeling deliver big time. This is exactly the same thing I said many years ago when finding that my old Yamaha Motif did a better job on stage than any Pianoteq preset and I could not understand why, It is better now but there is still a long way to go..

Well, personally I’m one all for preamps as some possible future effects MODARTT might want seriously to consider, especially, since often gigging musicians like yourself complain about the presence of the sounds from the pianos at the venues.  (See my topic post: Vote Yes or No for Pres.)  Many of the posters whose loudspeaker or monitor setups consist of just two (2) enclosures as outputs are very likely soon going to need all the help they possibly can get, if they’re honesty really expecting to eventually have the illusion of some real acoustic piano before them as they play and got the entire piano sound coming perhaps from only two (2) speaker points also.  Not to mention, the typical enclosures they use might have woofers no larger than only eight (8”) inch diameters.

Although, a manufacturer like Roland or Kawai seems only to expect a realistically acoustic sounding digital requires no less than a whole array of several speakers and amplifiers: a lot more than a VST average user’s two (2) near-field monitors allotment.  See graphic (below):

Whether the VST digital piano monitor setup in your own environment is right against a wall or far from it, in lieu of any specially designed cabinetry and unique speaker system, some sort of preamp is possibly going to be your most effective tone sculpting tool anywhere inside the home listening and playing (performance) space. 

The preamp as an effect permits separate speaker volume and equalization adjustments no matter your setup (active or passive) and location, even if that’s in a corner of your room or at a gig.  And, preamps do allow independent compensation throughout any unforeseeable room irregularities including odd room shapes and even room furnishings, because you can adjust individually the volume and tonal output from each speaker one at a time and differently via each preamp pair of equalizers!  Just as easily you can equalize left output differently from that of the right, middle tones in the stereo field are able to vary significantly from the sides through the preamp units housing the pairs of equalization (eq) controls receiving input from the choices of mics used.

Presently when underneath mic selections you cursory click on the EFFECTS wording above the three (3) fx slots in the interface it will reveal a drop-down menu which could accommodate simply additional selections (effects) such as the means to preamp fx slots and others reachable via something like graphical display arrows if ever at all put on and included into that menu, so that all of which could someday also permit extra effects usage in addition to the mere three (3) at a time simultaneous use and view limitation currently available without such effects offered in a bank selection  —of more than just always the visible three (3) of course.

If you listen to the youtube videos Spectrasonics  have made demoing Keyscape, it sounds awesome and I am pretty sure it is not the samples..

Possibly, MODARTT focuses largely to target a niche in the market which is for all the music of the European classics, while Spectrasonics is targeting musicians obviously interested in the more contemporary.  I too have both MODARTT and Spectrasonics (Trilian) instruments.  Which I like.  Although as a jazz musician primarily, I certainly have to admit Keyscape sounds are indeed identical to popular recordings.  It maybe just lacks PIANOTEQ’s microphones and their placements.  Which if were today aided by famous modern producers’ presets along with some of the mic preamps specifically professional piano recordings have been given to use, probably no need for Keyscape would ever exist, just as you say!

https://youtu.be/svX6WRWBP8o

I love this video! I watched it several times.
Although I see more of an advertisement for the Roland A-88 than for Keyscape. (laughs)

You miss my point; you’re missing the point!

Deyvidpetro wrote:

By no means am I slating Pianoteq at all in fact out of all the VST's I have I have come back to Pianoteq because it instantly inspires me and I literally get lost in it. I confirm the authenticity of it when I went to a Steinway and Sons dealer in Frankfurt and the Model B sound like a replica it was amazing I was stunned, truly. So it is amazing g what they have achieved. Like I said I feel Pianoteq is an investment not just a sample library.

I find these comments interesting because when I hear piano sounds I hear so many different elements: harmonics, temperament, sound speed, pitch, velocity, dampers, dynamic range, etc, it makes me wonder if all you need is the ability to manipulate the sound in such a way as to match these behaviors to the sounds of the desired piano. This would be hard to do unless you have the instrument you want to imitate. It's like finding that biting point. Pianoteq Pro has all the corresponding features of a physical acoustic piano, I wonder what could be added? What makes the models what they are?

Yet something besides any of the rolling casters is missing...

A microphone likely is an highly important feature in PIANOTEQ PRO that is it is perhaps partly responsible corresponding or amounting equally in importance to the successful professional recording of a physical piano.  And, although a preamp is also an important feature of any highly regarded professional recording of the piano it is yet (discarded like the caster) nowhere found within this software version.

While PIANOTEQ PRO may have mainly all the features of a physical acoustic piano, the specific electronics hardware that went into many contemporary recordings of the modern instrument itself, out of the various genres enjoyed marginally today, has yet to become fully modeled and featured inside the software.  But, any of the selfsame electronics what convincingly are present today out of the recordings has always distinguished amateur usage from the professional...

They might separate the amateur from the pro (er visa versa).  Might they also eventually PIANOTEQ from PIANOTEQ PRO usage?

Matter-of-factly many of the electronics today make up marvelous modern models of recording arts and science...

For which (liked or not) rewards to highly recognized audio mixing engineers who record pianos are annually given!  But, any of those makes his living out of recording pianos.

It would just make me happy, if MODARTT adds these often professionally used electronics.  Which in the form of preamp models its users could connect to the current or yet an even somehow broadened selection of modern microphone model types.  What along with preamps seems all in all to make up, irregardless of specific piano brands, the bulk of widely accepted listenable piano recordings ultimately what they are!

By no means am I slating Pianoteq at all in fact out of all the VST's I have I have come back to Pianoteq because it instantly inspires me and I literally get lost in it. I confirm the authenticity of it when I went to a Steinway and Sons dealer in Frankfurt and the Model B sound like a replica it was amazing I was stunned, truly. So it is amazing g what they have achieved. Like I said I feel Pianoteq is an investment not just a sample library.

I find these comments interesting because when I hear piano sounds I hear so many different elements: harmonics, temperament, sound speed, pitch, velocity, dampers, dynamic range, etc, it makes me wonder if all you need is the ability to manipulate the sound in such a way as to match these behaviors to the sounds of the desired piano. This would be hard to do unless you have the instrument you want to imitate. It's like finding that biting point. Pianoteq Pro has all the corresponding features of a physical acoustic piano, I wonder what could be added? What makes the models what they are?

I would say the A-88 is quite a fast keyboard once you get used to it. The MK II will be faster. Might be worth looking at the Roland RD2000 or the FP90 which will be faster, they are very smooth key beds.

An interesting competitor at only half price of the RD2000 is the Roland RD-88, which has the same PHA-4 action as the FP60 and even the A-88 MkII, actually preferred by many, plus a plethora of 3000 tones as well as SuperNatural acoustic and electric pianos, MainStage compatibility and speakers (which is quite exceptional for a Roland stage piano).

I must admit I wasn't keen on the A-88 when I first bought it, I previously a Kawai VPC1. As time has gone on and I have the chance to really play with it I would highly recommend it. It is a great keyboard and in my opinion better than the VPC1. With the A-88 I find I can craft a better performance from it rather than the Kawai and it is more versatile across the spectrum.

I would say the A-88 is a great controller. Once I get the funds I will invest in the MK II because I do miss wooden keys. But overall a great piece kit and you can travel with it also.

Slightly Off Topic
How is the A-88 compared to VPC1 ?
We have a VPC1 but my son did not like it very much, he is into quite difficult fast classical music and the VPC1 is not fast enough. The keys do not rebound quickly enough so we are looking for something better. Nord Grand has a light touch but seems to work well but it's kinda pricey for a "midi-controller"

I would say the A-88 is a great controller. Once I get the funds I will invest in the MK II because I do miss wooden keys. But overall a great piece kit and you can travel with it also.

Helle wrote:

If Pianoteq had similar efx engine or settings, no other products would have any business.

Pianoteq with awesome fx would make the awesome modeling deliver big time. This is exactly the same thing I said many years ago when finding that my old Yamaha Motif did a better job on stage than any Pianoteq preset and I could not understand why, It is better now but there is still a long way to go..

Well, personally I’m one all for preamps as some possible future effects MODARTT might want seriously to consider, especially, since often gigging musicians like yourself complain about the presence of the sounds from the pianos at the venues.  (See my topic post: Vote Yes or No for Pres.)  Many of the posters whose loudspeaker or monitor setups consist of just two (2) enclosures as outputs are very likely soon going to need all the help they possibly can get, if they’re honesty really expecting to eventually have the illusion of some real acoustic piano before them as they play and got the entire piano sound coming perhaps from only two (2) speaker points also.  Not to mention, the typical enclosures they use might have woofers no larger than only eight (8”) inch diameters.

Although, a manufacturer like Roland or Kawai seems only to expect a realistically acoustic sounding digital requires no less than a whole array of several speakers and amplifiers: a lot more than a VST average user’s two (2) near-field monitors allotment.  See graphic (below):

Whether the VST digital piano monitor setup in your own environment is right against a wall or far from it, in lieu of any specially designed cabinetry and unique speaker system, some sort of preamp is possibly going to be your most effective tone sculpting tool anywhere inside the home listening and playing (performance) space. 

The preamp as an effect permits separate speaker volume and equalization adjustments no matter your setup (active or passive) and location, even if that’s in a corner of your room or at a gig.  And, preamps do allow independent compensation throughout any unforeseeable room irregularities including odd room shapes and even room furnishings, because you can adjust individually the volume and tonal output from each speaker one at a time and differently via each preamp pair of equalizers!  Just as easily you can equalize left output differently from that of the right, middle tones in the stereo field are able to vary significantly from the sides through the preamp units housing the pairs of equalization (eq) controls receiving input from the choices of mics used.

Presently when underneath mic selections you cursory click on the EFFECTS wording above the three (3) fx slots in the interface it will reveal a drop-down menu which could accommodate simply additional selections (effects) such as the means to preamp fx slots and others reachable via something like graphical display arrows if ever at all put on and included into that menu, so that all of which could someday also permit extra effects usage in addition to the mere three (3) at a time simultaneous use and view limitation currently available without such effects offered in a bank selection  —of more than just always the visible three (3) of course.

If you listen to the youtube videos Spectrasonics  have made demoing Keyscape, it sounds awesome and I am pretty sure it is not the samples..

Possibly, MODARTT focuses largely to target a niche in the market which is for all the music of the European classics, while Spectrasonics is targeting musicians obviously interested in the more contemporary.  I too have both MODARTT and Spectrasonics (Trilian) instruments.  Which I like.  Although as a jazz musician primarily, I certainly have to admit Keyscape sounds are indeed identical to popular recordings.  It maybe just lacks PIANOTEQ’s microphones and their placements.  Which if were today aided by famous modern producers’ presets along with some of the mic preamps specifically professional piano recordings have been given to use, probably no need for Keyscape would ever exist, just as you say!

https://youtu.be/svX6WRWBP8o

I love this video! I watched it several times.
Although I see more of an advertisement for the Roland A-88 than for Keyscape. (laughs)

If Pianoteq had similar efx engine or settings, no other products would have any business.

Pianoteq with awesome fx would make the awesome modeling deliver big time. This is exactly the same thing I said many years ago when finding that my old Yamaha Motif did a better job on stage than any Pianoteq preset and I could not understand why, It is better now but there is still a long way to go..

Well, personally I’m one all for preamps as some possible future effects MODARTT might want seriously to consider, especially, since often gigging musicians like yourself complain about the presence of the sounds from the pianos at the venues.  (See my topic post: Vote Yes or No for Pres.)  Many of the posters whose loudspeaker or monitor setups consist of just two (2) enclosures as outputs are very likely soon going to need all the help they possibly can get, if they’re honesty really expecting to eventually have the illusion of some real acoustic piano before them as they play and got the entire piano sound coming perhaps from only two (2) speaker points also.  Not to mention, the typical enclosures they use might have woofers no larger than only eight (8”) inch diameters.

Although, a manufacturer like Roland or Kawai seems only to expect a realistically acoustic sounding digital requires no less than a whole array of several speakers and amplifiers: a lot more than a VST average user’s two (2) near-field monitors allotment.  See graphic (below):

Whether the VST digital piano monitor setup in your own environment is right against a wall or far from it, in lieu of any specially designed cabinetry and unique speaker system, some sort of preamp is possibly going to be your most effective tone sculpting tool anywhere inside the home listening and playing (performance) space. 

The preamp as an effect permits separate speaker volume and equalization adjustments no matter your setup (active or passive) and location, even if that’s in a corner of your room or at a gig.  And, preamps do allow independent compensation throughout any unforeseeable room irregularities including odd room shapes and even room furnishings, because you can adjust individually the volume and tonal output from each speaker one at a time and differently via each preamp pair of equalizers!  Just as easily you can equalize left output differently from that of the right, middle tones in the stereo field are able to vary significantly from the sides through the preamp units housing the pairs of equalization (eq) controls receiving input from the choices of mics used.

Presently when underneath mic selections you cursory click on the EFFECTS wording above the three (3) fx slots in the interface it will reveal a drop-down menu which could accommodate simply additional selections (effects) such as the means to preamp fx slots and others reachable via something like graphical display arrows if ever at all put on and included into that menu, so that all of which could someday also permit extra effects usage in addition to the mere three (3) at a time simultaneous use and view limitation currently available without such effects offered in a bank selection  —of more than just always the visible three (3) of course.

Possibly, MODARTT focuses largely to target a niche in the market which is for all the music of the European classics, while Spectrasonics is targeting musicians obviously interested in the more contemporary.  I too have both MODARTT and Spectrasonics (Trilian) instruments.  Which I like.  Although as a jazz musician primarily, I certainly have to admit Keyscape sounds are indeed identical to popular recordings.  It maybe just lacks PIANOTEQ’s microphones and their placements.  Which if were today aided by famous modern producers’ presets along with some of the mic preamps specifically professional piano recordings have been given to use, probably no need for Keyscape would ever exist, just as you say!

https://youtu.be/svX6WRWBP8o

Deyvidpetro wrote:

Yes, I would say Pianoteq is very close to surpassing everything on the market and within the next few updates if they get it right.

That's pretty much the way I feel about it. In some ways, I think Pianoteq has aleady surpassed everything else (e.g. historical instruments and advanced tuning). I do hope that they can improve the reverb settings, because IMO there lies Pianoteq's 'Achilles heel'.

I agree that efx setting is the 'Achilles heel'. That is why some really bad products out there can surpass Pianoteq in many areas where the authenticity is secondary. I was meeting up with a tonight with a band to practice for a recording session later on and was playing on a  Roland FP-90 and somehow everything is so well adjusted and smooth and that is hard to get with Pianoteq, I usually disable all pianoteq efx and feed the piano to other stuff like a good compressor and an good reverb and things begin to shine but that should not be necessary. If you listen to the youtube videos Spectrasonics  have made demoing Keyscape, it sounds awesome and I am pretty sure it is not the samples..

If Pianoteq had similar efx engine or settings, no other products would have any business.

Pianoteq with awesome fx would make the awesome modeling deliver big time. This is exactly the same thing I said many years ago when finding that my old Yamaha Motif did a better job on stage than any Pianoteq preset and I could not understand why, It is better now but there is still a long way to go..

The biggest problem for me with Pianoteq is:
A. The attack. Just not clinical enough, especially in the mids.
B. Warmth. The body isn't warm enough yet.

But yes, I get more inspired by Pianoteq than the mentioned sample libraries and can craft an actual performance.
Just fitting Pianoteq into a mix can be a bit of a minefield.

Deyvidpetro wrote:

Some vintage models would be nice and make them as full bodied as the grand pianos too.

I really need to get myself a midi keyboard with wooden keys. I have the Roland A88 which is great but I miss the feel of wooden keys.

What a coincidence, Deyvidpetro Deyvidpetro, I have the Roland A-88 and I feel the same way. Even the Roland FP7 F keys are better and more comfortable, less plastic noise.
But what I like about the A-88 is that it allows you to perform different functions on the controls and operate the Pianoteq opened by the equipment without the need for a mouse or computer. But you have reasons, as the keys of the A-88 are not the best.

Also, it is super light if you have to carry it on your shoulders for gigs...