dnv wrote:

Did you already try the Echo Audiofire 2 or 4?

No, I haven't heard either of them. Have you heard them and liked how they sounded?

I had an Echo Audiofire 2 more than one year ago for a short time. At that time I tried to get pianoteq running with another computer, but it didn´t work perfect. Now that pianoteq works very good on my machines I´m searching for a good audio interface. Probably I will buy one of the Echo Audiofires soon. Actually the Audiofire 2 would be enough for only using pianoteq, but it has an additional expander cable for the midi input, because there isn´t enough space for all jacks on the Audiofire itself. The Audiofire 4 has all jacks directly on the case.

Did you already try the Echo Audiofire 2 or 4?

No, I haven't heard either of them. Have you heard them and liked how they sounded?

Mark Williams wrote:

Sorry for the confusion, dnv.
I was responding only to your efforts of trying to integrate an audio interface into a keyboard. I was just noting that if you were to try that, you'd likely be trading convenience for sonic quality.

That's all I was saying.

But why? If do it myself and find a good quality audio interface and a good quality keyboard what is the difference between running them as expected (audio-interface outside the piano) or with a little modification built in the piano?

I just haven't heard any really small audio interfaces that sounded good to my ear. There are a couple of Apogee units that are small and sound good (Mini-DAC, Duet), but other than those, I just haven't heard any small audio interfaces that I liked the sound of. YMMV, of course. That's just my experience.

And I totally agree with musictom about the M-Audio keyboard. I owned it for awhile and had to get rid of it. Very uneven to me. I have really liked my Yamaha in general, though. But obviously, as you noted, everyone's tastes are going to be different.

Sorry for the confusion, dnv.
I was responding only to your efforts of trying to integrate an audio interface into a keyboard. I was just noting that if you were to try that, you'd likely be trading convenience for sonic quality.

That's all I was saying.

But why? If do it myself and find a good quality audio interface and a good quality keyboard what is the difference between running them as expected (audio-interface outside the piano) or with a little modification built in the piano?

I´ve also heard many good things of Doepfer, esp. from a piano maker who has tried many real piano keyboards and many digital piano keyboards. He also told me that many manufacturers use the keyboards from FATAR, an italian company. Then I read that Doepfer does the same, so I was wondering what was better with Doepfer? But I also read that Doepfer uses another (probably better) type of keyboards than FATAR uses in his own cheap keyboards.

At the end I have to admit that all this theoretical discussion about which keyboard is the best does only help a bit. I have to go to a piano centre or something similar to try different digital pianos. Next week I´ve got the chance to try a Doepfer LMK4 in my home town.

The touch on this thing is HORRIBLE! Inconsistent from note to note, and the black keys are much lighter feeling than the white keys. And each "F" key responds differently than all the others. Good grief!!

On the other hand, I've heard nothing but great things about Doepfer. They're pretty rare in the US, but I always keep my eye out. I'm currently using a Studiologic SL-900. It's got a pretty light touch, but does well for me, especially when I use it on my jazz gigs.

Best of luck!
Tom

I don´t see your point now. I´m searching for a digital piano with a preferably piano-like keyboard. At the moment I don´t have problems with the sound quality. My soundcard is the Presonus Firepod. But I have to buy another smaller one, because the Firepod isn´t mine and it´s too big for this purpose.

I will try some Doepfer pianos in the near future as I´ve heard they are really good.

The piano-built-in audio-interface isn´t the most important thing, it only would be very nice as it reduces the time for setting up, and it reduces the cables hanging around.

Sorry for the confusion, dnv.
I was responding only to your efforts of trying to integrate an audio interface into a keyboard. I was just noting that if you were to try that, you'd likely be trading convenience for sonic quality.

That's all I was saying.

As for keyboards, I also think it's worth checking out several of the Yamaha offerings.

When I tried relying on USB for both powering an audio interface and for midi, I had troubles with overheating on my laptop. After a few minutes, the laptop would just shut down. I never lost any data, but the bottom of the computer did get very hot.

Do be careful.

Thanks for your warning. Do you or  someone else know, if the USB-Interface of a keyboard is powered from the keyboard itself usually? Or is it powered by the connected Laptop?

Interesting to see you have Pianoteq on the eee laptop. How is the performance? What eee are you using? Any limitations to polyphony etc.?

The performance is surprisingly good. I run all electric pianos with 44 khz and 64 samples (1.5 ms) at max. polyphony 48. Absolut no crackling and load never more than 50%. Hardware external midi2usb-interface, output onboard Intel HDA soundcard on eee-pc 901 with 4GB SSD for Debian/squeeze and a secondary 8 GB SSD for /home.

The Grand M3 is a bit more demanding, but at home I play with the same settings as above. A little risky is Grand C3 but the performance seems to be just sufficient for 99% (of my) playing. At least I can reduce the internal sampling to 22050 Hz to be 100% crackle free with Grand C3.

At the moment I'm testing  pure USB-connections (USB-Keyboard and USB-Soundcard), to see, if the same performance can be achieved.

When I tried relying on USB for both powering an audio interface and for midi, I had troubles with overheating on my laptop. After a few minutes, the laptop would just shut down. I never lost any data, but the bottom of the computer did get very hot.

Do be careful.

I don´t want to power the audio interface by USB or FireWire. Probably the power could be taken from the digital piano´s power.

Do be careful.

Cool idea. It inspires me to modify my setup similar. Since this weekend I play Pianoteq with my eee-pc and my USB-connected Masterkeyboard Kawai ES3. Now I'm thinking about to use USB for sound-output of the eee also by connecting a little USB-Audio interface short distance with by mixing console and wire the long distance (3 - 5 m) to the eee with an USB-cable.

In other words, the eee-pc would be connected with just two usb-cables (1 midi, 1 digital-audio) to my equipment. Two advantages: the USB-plug is more stable than the mini-headphone-TRS and there is less sound-loss using digital transmission.

Potential disadvantage: the accu might go down faster powering the external usb-audio-interface. I assume, the internal Intel HDA soundcard needs less power.

cheers

Interesting to see you have Pianoteq on the eee laptop. How is the performance? What eee are you using? Any limitations to polyphony etc.?

I just wanted to add to this thread to say that naturally, every piece of gear in your chain will affect your sound quality. The audio interface you use is of crucial importance to how things sound in your studio, of course. Unless you really need the portability of the scenario you're describing, I would think that upgrading your audio interface at some point would give you better results than trying to do the retro-fit you're describing.

But of course, you know best what your needs and usage are.

Hi Mark,

I don´t see your point now. I´m searching for a digital piano with a preferably piano-like keyboard. At the moment I don´t have problems with the sound quality. My soundcard is the Presonus Firepod. But I have to buy another smaller one, because the Firepod isn´t mine and it´s too big for this purpose.

I will try some Doepfer pianos in the near future as I´ve heard they are really good.

The piano-built-in audio-interface isn´t the most important thing, it only would be very nice as it reduces the time for setting up, and it reduces the cables hanging around.