Admittedly, it sounds somewhat like a toy piano in the comparison to the both of yours.  Perhaps it is that mine just stands out in its own league, far from a fellow struggling artist's endeavor  —but just as misunderstood.

Seriously, I am in awe by your attention to details to make the presets and what they ultimately might mean to others who downloaded your creations.  Certainly to me they impart a sense of intimacy for a discerning music listener such as myself to appreciate, quietly.

Man, Jake, I really have to sit myself down somewhere and intently listen to hear over and over the subtlety of nuances you captured from Mr. Doug McKenzie’s adagio performance, that of the song My Funny Valentine.  It to me is sublime. 

When I attended a Utah college  —let me say, before I dropped out— one of the college professors (who allegedly taught music appreciation) remarked er stipulated; music commonly called classical had been misnomered, but, actually is serious music.  Well, while he was referring to his abstraction to the majority of the students who wanted to receive high grades from him, I left his class and did some referring of my own within my soon smoke filled dorm room, if you get my meaning.  Understandably, I was an adolescent who failed to recognize inanimate objects as suddenly baring human characteristics and attitudes endowed in them or becoming newly fashioned high fangled false-god like in appearances  —from chiefly the traditions that now have long been established inside the state run western university institutions.  Remarkably, I fail to accept, personally, any animism from accusatory and universally hypocritical teachers indeed who verbally teach or instruct outside of sub Saharan locations, but, only to belittle the lives of fellow inhabitants from their apparent selfsame animistic beliefs.

I know I just got off on a tangent!

My point is; one is a serious human being musician indeed if he or she (whether a newbie to Pianoteq or not) gives an audience to your preset rendition, and appreciably and deservingly so.

Now I like to say at the end of this post, with the Age of Aquarius approaching (and with both new users and old timers alike needing to soak up as much information as possible about Pianoteq presets, in the imagined words from Maynard G. Krebs a jazz piano playin' sidekick inside Max Shulman's Dobie Gillis, if you will, "School us, Big Daddy."

In the My Funny Valentine song in which I too employed the setup, it seems to intensify the overall sound of Doug McKenzie’s very expressive playing style.  But, admittedly I consider myself often taken by that song as it reminds me of Lucille Ball.

Possibly complicating my memory, at a piano my ex-girlfriend performed in an honorarium to Lucy that was held in Hollywood.

Anyway, I posted the XY90 microphone setup in a preset to FXP Corner:

https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/file/5xt6ma7o
Let’s see how the voting goes!

Man, you know, as stated earlier, you're free to make your own mic mini presets out of the mic setups I listed (above) whether or not MODARTT decides to make a larger variety of mic presets available.  Although, you'll have no really convenient way to save any mic descriptions to those setups, since the note pane you suggest specifically for microphone presets is as yet unsupported.

Personally, I have no way to speculate if VirtualSoundStage 2.0 secretly incorporates modeled microphone brands or not.  To me it is entirely convincing, though, enough to leave me a happy end user!

Jake, you've been inquiring about any possible audio examples I may have to demonstrate my uses of various software packages (including VirtualSoundStage 2.0) with regards to Pianoteq (https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...07#p959507).  If you're still interested, you may want to hear just what I've accomplished as an amateur audio engineer with the unmodified Steinway B Close Mic preset in my DAW.  Its unaltered default values I put through some major enhancements completely transforming it into, convincingly, a studio quality production! 

I switched off the preset limiter  —of course!

See forum post: Engineering Pianoteq Steinway B Close Mic Preset.

Experimenting with different mics, I got curious about the SF-12, so I Googled it. It's actually a stereo mic, as is the SF-24: https://royerlabs.com/microphones/ . In Pianoteq, these mics only seem to be modelled in mono. Or am I missing something?

I've always felt a bit queasy each time I looked at and used Pianoteq figure eight (8) microphones.  They just appeared gimmicky!  By my being an amateur mixer er amateurish audio engineer, I've had no idea the mics were supposed to have two (2) outputs each.  Although, they sound a bit much; that's maybe that which was oftentimes unneeded. 

Now my question is: "Who knew, on an actual physical figure eight (8) mic you have to adjust gain levels for both ends of it, separately?"

No amount of end user zealotry is going to gloss over or cover up what a Pianoteq figure eight (8) mic mechanically obviously lacks  —true stereo adjustment!

Until MODARTT adequately addresses this issue, end users like you, dazric, and I are going to have to use some workarounds, like two (2) mics positioned opposite each other horizontally forming a makeshift stereo figure eight (8) input, as Qexl suggested, for us to creatively reinvent a figure eight (8) source that actually has stereo gain levels independently controllable.

You know, dazric, if when within a Top view or Front view, you control click on a mic, you got (on the yellow pane, in addition to coordinates) a mic balance cell you fill with zero, or negative, or positive amounts, you could choose the stereophony you would like on a figure eight (8) microphone for both its ends simultaneously.  An option click by itself on a mic might even reveal another slide selector for a much quicker selection.

Maybe all that is needed is a group of alternative images with enough detail to allow you to see your distance from hammers, dampeners, sides, strings, Etc., and a measurement means like the line between linked mics.  You already get a fullscreen mode without a loss in detail. 

No photorealistic image is absolutely necessary when a wire mesh will do.  Besides, dazric's idea of an assistant or even a separate application for professional users just to hone in on accurately measured mic placements when needed is genuinely worth some consideration.

I like to make the summation, some just want to see a graphical interface that is, well, one much more clearly graphic  —and without your having to grapple with its visually obscured artwork just to get it to work.

Have you got an idea there!  Perhaps they'll want to be sure to include all the existing preset mic variations that already accompany Pianoteq instrument presets, before any signature mic presets are even offered (just for thorough end users to make informed decisions in microphone placement).  I, for one, nay, all for one, and one for all, have much to learn!

People, though I feel we've had a little board meeting of our own, probably we'll just have to now wait and see whether or not members of MODARTT are willing to get on board with some of the ideas of us end users  —musicians!

Yes, I would also welcome a wider range of professionally-produced presets to demonstrate the effects of various configurations and different mics. I wonder if Modartt could persuade some music producers to contribute presets, as Waves have done with their Abbey Road plugins? And if extra mics and pre-amps were to be an add-on or Pro-only feature, I think that would be acceptable to the majority of users.

Partnering with producers to offer presets based around arrays is a great idea. Particularly if the people were chosen from a variety of locations and genres.

Thanks for posting the link to Virtual Soundstage. I haven't had the chance to download and try it yet, but I've read just about everything on their site. I'm curious about their thinking about microphones, however. Apparently the program doesn't try to emulate or superimpose any mic's sound. It instead just takes the samples and creates delays and filters to mimic the various soundstages and arrays?

Have you made any solo Pianoteq recordings in Virtual Soundstage that you could post here or link us to on Youtube?

And of course I'm still hoping to see more mic setups, as we've been discussing. Maybe a dropdown list with all of the major setups and the mics already linked for moving? We can right-click to call mic presets now, but I'm not sure many people find that, or would find that.  I'm not sure how, but it would be nice to have a note pane for the mics page, too, where the developers could include notes about each mic array--its advantages and disadvantages, suggestions about how to vary it, etc.

A way to change measurements from meters to feet would admittedly be good, too. It may seem lazy to people outside the US, but when you grow up measuring and thinking in inches and feet, you naturally see things and think in terms of inches and feet. It's not just Hollywood and LA. Nashville and New York, the other big U.S. music cities with many, many studios and musicians can think in terms of meters, but can work more quickly if given measurements in inches and feet.

A better way to position mics more accurately would be good too, but I would imagine that creating a 3D image of the piano cabinet would be hard and take up resources.

I do like your idea about a zoomed 3d view.  Maybe developers will see to implement it into PIANOTEQ PRO since professional users require pinpoint accuracy in matching microphone placements in successful professional recordings, some Grammy winners.  A professional engineer wants a clear and unobstructed view into a piano body whenever he or she carefully positions microphones inside the piano for a studio recording.  Needless-to-say, if his or her studio location is Hollywood, the engineer wants quickly to measure piano microphone locations in feet and inches  —without needless wasted time whereas always valuable time is lost to the engineer forced to use and translate metric measurements, untimely and unnecessarily, especially anywhere near the vicinity of the Grammy awards.

Man, and do I like Mr. Johnson’s idea of a broadened selection of microphones  —but for professional users, specifically!  For PIANOTEQ, MODARTT could even reassemble the team it used to develop its current modeled microphones offering, to make new ones available in add-on packs  —but with selections of preamps packages added, geared to PIANOTEQ PRO users, who may become interested.

Personally, as a PIANOTEQ PRO user, l'd like to see the addition of the Earthworks PM-40 Piano Mic system and the Neumann TLM 102 added, if PIANOTEQ were to include simulated versions of both these and some models of microphone preamps.

Excellent dazric,

The stereo effect of these kinds of arrays is probably best enjoyed on speakers.  For headphones something like NX Virtual Mix Room by Waves adds real world cross-talk between L&R (and whatever other psycho-acoustic things they do with micro delays etc.) which helps the effect seem more real, more like you're not in headphones but in the room.

If you do like moar stereo which translates to earphones possibly more blatantly too (as I do too depending) try mixing some wide mics along with it (mic on left with mostly the left chan and right mostly right chan), like low in the mix (back or close but wide as you like and bring in to taste).  That way, if main volume levels remain with the Blumlein pair, with a lower mixed mid-bassy mic (equal L&R to start) for body, plus 2 low mixed wide, you can get some appreciative depth - but can be an adventure.  Swap mic types to put the shine on the tones you like to hear tailored for the piece or type of playing.

For recording, often mics are going to be for collecting absolutely the most detail and closest tonal range you want - then later things like all other mixing tools (DAW, EQ compression, desk emulation and so on) can really finalise 'the overall' sound, including stereo width.

But when the mics are good, positioned well in Pianoteq it's got so much going for it - I'm always stunned when taking time to re-jig or re-attempt something I tried a few years ago.  Just an SF-24 sounds better than some multi-mic things I used to do to get a hot bright sound without a DAW involved.

You might also like to turn off level & delay compensation? (can mean a sort of more maybe organic effect in headphones, but lower volume happens, but remember the "gain" control in effects, or adjust mics volumes of course individually too), maybe leave the figure 8 with no L&R delay (but also good with some, I like over 8ms, just taste but ~5 works well too - maybe try more see how it gels with the other mics), give the bass one something like 9secs left and 35sec right delay and the wide mics adjust to effect with diff values if close or far.. see what happens - I like this kind of setup - there's no correct thing to do but play with balances and position/angles, check balance by playing chords everywhere.

BTW though, if you have a piece which you want to close mic for, check the key range, aim mics appropriately - you may or may not need or want a mic down in the bass end if you're just wanting mid to trebles.

It's such a luxury having 5 virtual mics to click around - but that many can get quite thick. I really have a few 5 mic setups (all different angles overhead - but it needs adjusting for every piano - most arrays are going to be needing some movement between presets - less so for simple ones).

Maybe it's a nice project, to simplify all that too.

I have software which mimics such behavior in paired mics right now!

If you want to mike a room, as Qexl’s video demonstrates, but for virtual instruments, you may like to demo the software I use: VirtualSoundStage 2.0.  It includes stereo microphone setups (below) that you position freely in various virtual environments:

Mixed Stereophony

EBS
Stereophony:Mixed
Width:0.25m
Angle:90 deg
Capsules:2 x Cardioid

NOS
Stereophony:Mixed
Width:0.3m
Angle:90 deg
Capsules:2 x Cardioid

ORTF
Stereophony:Mixed
Width:0.17m
Angle:110 deg
Capsules:2 x Cardioid

GHS
Stereophony:Mixed
Width:0.6m
Angle:90 deg
Capsules:2 x Subcardioid

Runtime Stereophony

AB30
Stereophony:Runtime
Width:0.3m
Angle:0 deg
Capsules:2 x Omnidirectional

AB60
Stereophony:Runtime
Width:0.6m
Angle:0 deg
Capsules:2 x Omnidirectional

AB90
Stereophony:Runtime
Width:0.9m
Angle:0 deg
Capsules:2 x Omnidirectional

AB120
Stereophony:Runtime
Width:1.2m
Angle:0 deg
Capsules:2 x Omnidirectional

AB200
Stereophony:Runtime
Width:2.0m
Angle:0 deg
Capsules:2 x Omnidirectional

Intensity Stereophony

XY60
Stereophony:Intensity
Width:0.0m
Angle:60 deg
Capsules:2 x Cardioid

XY90
Stereophony:Intensity
Width:0.0m
Angle:90 deg
Capsules:2 x Cardioid

XY120
Stereophony:Intensity
Width:0.0m
Angle:120 deg
Capsules:2 x Cardioid

Blumlein
Stereophony:Intensity
Width:0.0m
Angle:90 deg
Capsules:2 x Figure-Eight

Other

Decca Tree
Width:2.0m
Depth:1.2m
Capsules:3 x Omnidirectional

Each setup (above) is useful in conjunction with the Pianoteq modeled SF-12 and SF-24, if you choose to use either in VirtualSoundStage 2.0.

You know you're always free to make your own mic mini presets out of the mic setups (above) whether or not MODARTT decides to make a larger variety of mic presets available.  Although, you'll have no way to save any mic descriptions to those setups, since a note pane intended specifically for mini presets such as microphone presets is as yet unsupported.

Stereo in regards to the figure 8 mics in Pianoteq would probably just be modelled so that the mic 1 is left channel and mic 2 on the right. (other than maybe some technical secret sauce to do with mic internals, our controls are just L & R in the controls).

Single diaphragm mics will mostly have identical left and right chanels (not separate mics pointing across each other) so you can manipulate 2 of these to achieve something similar to what the single figure 8 mics do.

Using 2 cardioid mics you can get more into things like crosstalk too (each mic having its own stereo separate L & R levels in Pianoteq) - adds more possibilities that way.

Some nice configs like that would probably be what this thread was begun with in mind I guess.

You can also manipulate 2 figure 8 mics (and right click the volume chanels to flip polarity, which shows red - worth doing some experiments based on maybe some links from above and links out from there, wikipedia etc.). There's a whole world of things, tried and true and experimental to do with the mics in Pianoteq - real depth to be explored.

There are coincident pairs like the Blumlein pairs, with specifications and attached to genuine scientific reason, then a great many more, good bad and ugly - some also based on similar ideas, but playing with being wider apart or crossing over more or less - limitless - some people never stop imagining new mic ideas. I like taking these classic ideas and just adding a nuance, or twist.

The SFs sound great to me by themselves with reverb all the way down to -11 but I do also like the DPA4041 or U-87 to boost some lower-mids and bass.