I would like to get the same extra sustein for the Erard add-on.

Yeah -- sorry, guys, but we're going to need longer-sustain versions of _all_ the piano models!!!  An Erard or Bechstein with longer sustain would be positively _delicious_!!!

(I'm begging you -- _please_ do an upright [or several] soon!!!  And let's be able to remove the lid _and_ lower panel [around the pedals] on the "Sound Recording" setup.)

:-)

Jake Johnson wrote:

I have to ask: Is the two stage decay just the result of the shift from the unisons being in-phase to being out-of-phase?

The two stage decay can be observed in the simplified case of two strings vibrating in the fundamental mode. Things get more complex when you consider three strings and all their overtones. Then it’s not a two stage decay but rather a multiple stage decay.

Simplified? That must be relatively speaking .

I had wondered why AAS's Strum Acoustic modelled virtual guitar did not have a 12 string in it. That's why I don't have it.  What I see when tuning up with Strobosoft's (virtual!) tuner, is that in a real 12 string the courses have different amounts of inharmonicity, depending on the physical structure of the strings. Being able to see (and hear) changes of 1 cent is not so helpful to tuning up when the harmonics can be 10 cents away from the fundamental, and the fundamental is "wobbling". Guitarists, of course, can pluck the strings anywhere along the length, and use different things to do that, but an acoustic 12 string remains a sorry business. It's lucky that pianos do not have a lever to move the hammer bed around, and a dial to bring different hammer materials into use.

Back on topic, it's nice read professional pianists' views. I note from its reviews that PTQ has achieved a lot of interest from serious players (the present writer not particularly included). It does not, and should not, follow that the "seriousness" of a product is related to the perceived "seriousness" of the decision to buy the product. Anyone thinking that should at least never buy coffee at British motorway services.

cheers
Hans

was just listening to it again - seems to have a much 'richer' sound right now!
cooL!

the electric guitarists (and bass guitarists) around here will recognise another side of this coin:

if you use an electronic tuner pedal to try and tune your guitar,
you will nearly always get that annoying thing where, initially for a bit of second, when you first pluck the string, the tuner shows it at a slightly different pitch (sharper) before the note sustains and settles down.
As I understand it, this is because when you first pluck the string and make it vibrate, the effective string length is different because you are kind of briefly making a 'node' at the plucking point.
This confuses bad guitarists who can't use their ears to tell if they are in tune

Interesting.  I have a friend that plays and builds guitars - I'll ask him about this.

Guillaume:

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), but hammer placement on the strings of a piano is critical in order to avoid some nasty overtones.

Or (as feline says) does this momentarily make the string shorter?

Or do both of these occur at the same time?

Glenn

I have to ask: Is the two stage decay just the result of the shift from the unisons being in-phase to being out-of-phase?

The two stage decay can be observed in the simplified case of two strings vibrating in the fundamental mode. Things get more complex when you consider three strings and all their overtones. Then it’s not a two stage decay but rather a multiple stage decay.

if you use an electronic tuner pedal to try and tune your guitar,
you will nearly always get that annoying thing where, initially for a bit of second, when you first pluck the string, the tuner shows it at a slightly different pitch (sharper) before the note sustains and settles down.
As I understand it, this is because when you first pluck the string and make it vibrate, the effective string length is different because you are kind of briefly making a 'node' at the plucking point.
This confuses bad guitarists who can't use their ears to tell if they are in tune

That seems logical, but somehow too simple--I don't always seem to hear, on a real piano, this direct alignment of the decay slowing as the unisons go out of tune. (Maybe I listen to sampled pianos too often.)

And I have to admit that I'm not sure I want that equation to be true: keeping the amplitude of the initial decay slightly long and loud, even as the unisons detune, DOES seem to help make a sampled piano sing.

Jake Johnson wrote:

Is it the hammer hardness (along with velocity or force, of course) that determines the length of the first decay stage?

I may have remembered incorrectly, but a paper I read by a now-dead composer very heavily into 12-tone and more exotic scales, suggested that it had to do with both the string length and the point on the string at which the hammer strikes, which I seem to remember was a topic brought up in this forum not so long ago.

Regards,
Neil

I believe you are correct.  The hammer can strike the string just about anywhere and the fundamental and natural harmonics will be the same.  If the hammer strikes away from a nodal point, some initial overtones will be harsh (odd harmonics), but the natural vibrational frequencies of the string will take over after a short period of time (perhaps during the initial decay period), and the initial harsh overtones will largely (it not totally) disappear.

An example is a rocking chair - you can push and pull it back and forth at any frequency you wish, but as soon as you let go of it, it will begin rocking at it's natural frequency.  Piano strings should follow the same basic physics.

Glenn

PS - if I am off base on this, I would appreciate Guillaume to set me straight (I defer to his superior knowledge on this matter).

Is it the hammer hardness (along with velocity or force, of course) that determines the length of the first decay stage?

I may have remembered incorrectly, but a paper I read by a now-dead composer very heavily into 12-tone and more exotic scales, suggested that it had to do with both the string length and the point on the string at which the hammer strikes, which I seem to remember was a topic brought up in this forum not so long ago.

Whatever.  I agree with your reading of the situation however, as when I listen to Francois-Joel Thiollier's recordings on Naxos

Edit:  http://fjthiollier.com/fjt_en/fjt_repertoire_en.htm

of Debussy, aside from the piano's having a very peculiar tone I can't at present duplicate with PTQ, I notice there is as you say a marked "shelf" in the decay followed by a much more gentle slope, giving the overall impression of a sustained tone (when in fact no such thing exists!)

Regards,
Neil