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		<title><![CDATA[Modartt user forum - Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
		<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=5867</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The most recent posts in Inexpensive headless fanless computer.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:07:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=962538#p962538</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>psterrett wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have a rather loud water-cooled i9 gaming computer pressed into service as a music production rig. I thought about installing a fan controller or building some kind of sound deadening box for it. Then I just put it in another room. Problem solved.</p></blockquote></div><p>that’s what I am doing for years:no fans in my ‘control’room....just a hdmi and three usb lanes ......very silent......on full load</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Emmanuel Tuts-Schiemsky)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=962538#p962538</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=962529#p962529</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I have a rather loud water-cooled i9 gaming computer pressed into service as a music production rig. I thought about installing a fan controller or building some kind of sound deadening box for it. Then I just put it in another room. Problem solved.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (psterrett)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sat, 28 Sep 2019 03:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=962529#p962529</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=962457#p962457</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p><p><a href="https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/32892686575.html?spm=a2g0n.orderlist-amp.item.32892686575&amp;aff_trace_key=&amp;aff_platform=msite&amp;m_page_id=1220amp-EnWhODVFjEHDhaesiYRltQ1569173627163">https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/328926...9173627163</a></p><p>This fanless pc with i3 7100u does a decent job with pianoteq. Along with 4Gb RAM and 64Gb SSD it reached my home for less than 200€. Install of linux mint 19 was super easy. Boots up &amp; ready to play in 15s.</p><p>Performance is good for my playing. With no optimization it will start going red &amp; cracking when polyphony goes beyond 48, way beyond my playing style (requires a lot of notes with continuous sustain pedal though, not in my reach despite my love for Satie - I tested by pushing the sustain while the demo jazz was playing). Much better than a fanless fit-pc I purchased 18 months ago with AMD G4 for twice as much.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Hachesse)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sun, 22 Sep 2019 17:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=962457#p962457</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=956362#p956362</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Thanks mooncalf2012! By you description it looks like the Celeron N4100 is a bit underpowered. My old MB Air (which is an i5 2557M not Core 2 Duo as i thought) has a Geekbench 4 of about 2600 single threaded, and it can run ptq at low enough latency and full polyphony, but does get stressed. </p><p>It seems a Pentium J5005 would be maybe also ok, as it has somewhat lower single-core but higher multicore benchmarks. Those exist as inexpensive NUCs and for 60EUR more one can buy an Akasa Newton JC fanless case for it. Total maye 280EUR.</p><p>But to be on the safe side probably a Pentium 4560T or 4600T 35W processor would be better. For those one can build a system with an Akasa Euler MX case and GA-B250N Phoenix-WIFI motherboard. In a low-memory and small-disk configuration that&#039;s around 400EUR. </p><p>Hmm.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (nb)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2018 12:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=956362#p956362</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955840#p955840</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I didn&#039;t have time to edit this more... Depending on whether you want portability or performance, (you will have to compromise somewhere). Even the newest Mobile processors (even the fan-less MacBooks) can still be underpowered even if they are able to stream and play HD content well, because they are optimized for smooth video playback over pure computing power. The ideal compromise would be to build a mini ITX PC using a fanless case, and at minimum an i5 Quad CPU. With laptops, you can virtually ignore models which have discrete GPU&#039;s because unless Pianoteq is somehow using Cuda cores on an NVIDIA mobile GPU* (When it&#039;s not bitcoin mining...), you are throwing money away on a GPU meant for gaming performance. An i5 2520M (Dual core) is the oldest and slowest CPU that I would recommend for mobile use of Pianoteq on a laptop, (especially if you are heavy on the sustain pedal). I use a live performance MIDI of Gershwin&#039;s &quot;Rhapsody in Blue&quot; as my benchmark. If Pianoteq can get through that without a sound glitch, then you have a nice live performer. If you are rendering to a DAW, CPU power is not a great concern. Look for later model i7 laptops (preferably quad-core), with Intel only graphics, if you are on a tight budget. As I said, the enhancements to most mobile processors lately have been in the GPU cores, while performance of the average CPU has not changed much, past speed boosting and multiple threads (and too much CPU speed throttling can be really bad for audio, and latency of MIDI while playing live). The best benchmark I have found for computing raw CPU power is Geekbench 4; A score of 3000 for a single core, is a good baseline for a peppy CPU that will give good audio performance, (Also look for laptops that have Realtek HD Audio, vs. Conexant chips). (An outboard ASIO device like a Korg DAC, can also help with quality and latency issues) If you have a desktop that gives a Geekbench 4 multi-core score of over 10,000, you have a machine that will probably never glitch at up to 256 note Polyphony, full sample rate, with low-latency. What you &#039;will&#039; gain in newer machine however, is slightly better RAM and bus speeds, which may help with latency issues, but generally the Geekbench scores take that into account, and there are tables on their website which list thousands of models, and processor numbers, and single-core and multi-core benchmark scores, so you can get an idea of what to look for. There are many bargains to be had on eBay if you search &#039;no HDD&#039; and put in a second hand SSD yourself. (Laptops that users have already upgraded to SSD, are usually over-priced anyway). For my desktop workstation, I&#039;m running a Quad-Core i7 4790K @ 4Ghz, 16 GB RAM, and Samsung SSD, with a Korg DAC 10R for output, and also internal Realtek 887 on the Gigabyte MOBO. My MacBook is a 2010 2.4Ghz (White Unibody) with 16GB RAM and SSD. The old MacBook keeps up well with Pianoteq, Macs are much better at handling internal audio, and the efficiency has more to do with the OS than the internal hardware, because I also have a Lenovo X220 12 inch that dual boots Windows 10 and Mac OS Sierra, and sometimes Ubuntu. There are reasons I won&#039;t go into the option of running MacOS on a PC platform specifically, but for research purposes it&#039;s interesting to see what performance gains can be had on the same hardware, with different OS&#039;s, and Pianoteq affords one that ability due to it&#039;s trifecta of coding choices... From personal experience windows 10 is the least desirable in terms of setting up and fine-tuning, but with the help of &quot;ASIO4All&quot;, and also the Korg DAC, very reliable results can be had with Pianoteq. For portability, and best latency, and no tweaking, I&#039;ve found a real Mac is the most &quot;no hassle&quot; choice, to run Pianoteq live, (a &quot;Hackintosh&quot; a close second). Audio can be a nightmare on laptops running windows 10, and special attention must be given to making sure proper drivers are installed, for many of the different audio chips out there, because those chips are often the cheapest component in the budget laptops, which is one reason I recommend the KORG, or any good, fast, DAC to handle audio concerns.&nbsp; I have yet to test Pianoteq with Ubuntu, though, but I just installed &quot;Bionic Beaver&quot;&nbsp; (Ubuntu 18 Studio) so I hope to compare the three machines I&#039;m currently licensed to run Standard. I hope my next build is a fanless, but also as a gamer, much of my budget has gone into the GPU. *I hinted that Pianoteq doesn&#039;t utilize CUDA cores, but what if it did?; Pianoteq &quot;Platinum&quot; maybe? Could you model an even more realistic piano sound with all that processing power?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Mooncalf2012)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955840#p955840</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955826#p955826</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>As I mentioned in another thread, I&#039;m running PTQ on a Tinkerboard without active cooling just fine for daily practise, but polyphony is limited in edge cases (though PTQ make a really good job to manage which notes are cut off), and I also get some CPU overloads on very hot days and/or intense parts of playing. But generally I can play for hours better than 20 years ago on a dedicated digltal piano hardware.</p><p>My subjective experience is that it really makes a difference if you only boot into runlevel 3, i.e. without GUI, and run PTQ headlessly. This saves a lot of processors cycles. You can configure PTQ through starting it with X forwarding from another computer with X windows installed:</p><div class="codebox"><pre><code>ssh -XC -c aes128-ctr tinkerboard.local bin/start-pianoteq611-gui</code></pre></div><p>I&#039;m using a Hifiberry AMP2 on the Tinkerboard, but I guess the built-in DAC is also not too bad (as in the Raspi) so you might just try the setup for about 60 € ordering a Tinkerboard.</p><p>But I&#039;m also interessed in a more powerful **fanless** computer, the Intel NIC have fans AFAIK.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (eriks)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955826#p955826</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955753#p955753</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Groove On wrote:</cite><blockquote><div class="quotebox"><cite>lorez wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Would something like a Surface Go be enough for PTQ?</p></blockquote></div><p>Spit-ball guesstimate of around 40 PTQ PI (+/-5) for the Pentium Gold 4415y (assuming no throttling or heat issues). It is a 7-8th generation CPU so you might get better performance but it is a budget mobile CPU. A step up would be the m series ( m3, m5 etc.), then the u series.</p><p>And as EvilDragon noted, the higher the base Ghz speed the better.</p></blockquote></div><p>It’s a 7th gen and it’s very close to a low m series cpu but yeah, you’re right a u series would have been great. I’m looking for a fanless, (in my case also tablet like) solution too and I waited for the Go since it was announced but it seems like a no-Go <i class="far fa-smile smiley"></i></p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (lorez)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2018 14:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955753#p955753</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955752#p955752</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>lorez wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Would something like a Surface Go be enough for PTQ?</p></blockquote></div><p>Spit-ball guesstimate of around 40 PTQ PI (+/-5) for the Pentium Gold 4415y (assuming no throttling or heat issues). It is a 7-8th generation CPU so you might get better performance but it is a budget mobile CPU. A step up would be the m series ( m3, m5 etc.), then the u series.</p><p>And as EvilDragon noted, the higher the base Ghz speed the better.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Groove On)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2018 11:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955752#p955752</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955744#p955744</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the suggestions! Right now I&#039;m actually using an old MacBook Air (can&#039;t say what generation, it&#039;s a Core 2 Duo processor before the i naming scheme). On a hot day, this thing gets really loud. So the promise &quot;fans won&#039;t spin up&quot; to me is less convincing than having no fan in the first place. The off-brand NUCs with N4100 are around 200EUR -- would a used i7 be that cheap? I&#039;ll have a look at the performance thread!</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (nb)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2018 08:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955744#p955744</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955733#p955733</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, 1.6 GHz on that one, without turbo mode. It might be possible with reduced quality settings in Pianoteq...</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (EvilDragon)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2018 12:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955733#p955733</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955731#p955731</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Would something like a Surface Go be enough for PTQ?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (lorez)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2018 11:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955731#p955731</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955703#p955703</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Same here I’m very happy with my two older 4th &amp; 5th generation MacBook Airs. They are extremely quiet, Pianoteq has yet to trigger the fans to go higher than their minimum super-silent speed. If I ever have to replace one, it will be with another MacBook Air - they are extremely convenient; I’ve completely stopped using my tablet on the piano.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Groove On)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2018 17:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955703#p955703</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955702#p955702</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>For quite a while also I had been looking at a headless/fanless option for hosting VSTs and use as a dedicated computer for DP use.</p><p>But then I realized that the headless side of this option wasn&#039;t going to work because I am often switching VSTs. And I wondered why &#039;fanless&#039; was on my list also. &quot;Quiet&quot; really was the goal, after all.</p><p>And so I concentrated on Intel offerings until I realized that there is another solution: just buy a once high-end 4 year old I7-equipped laptop and upgrade its HD to an appropriately sized SSD. You can get such laptops for little money, and I am now considering switching all my VST stuff from my desktop pc to such an older i7 laptop.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (NormB)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2018 16:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955702#p955702</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955700#p955700</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Search for Mossy’s Pianoteq Benchmark thread. It’s very useful for spit-balling CPU Pianoteq performance. From Mossy’s thread it looks like a PTQ PI of 30+ is enough to turn on all the basic settings for every day playing</p><p>In general, any 7th or 8th generation Intel CPU will run Pianoteq decently (top Celerons on up). I believe the Celeron N4100 is 7th gen and very similar to the Pentium N4200, so probably a PTQ PI of around 40+.</p><p>The i3/i5-7###U and i3/i5-8###U mobile CPUs might work fanless or with a low speed/quiet fan. Assuming no throttling, they will run Pianoteq nicely. For reference, my two MacBook Airs have older versions of the same mobile CPUs: 4th generation i5-4250U @ 1.3 GHz = PI of 40-72 and 5th generation i5-5250U @ 1.6 GHz = PI of 72-112.</p><p>There are also the Intel Compute Cards which are ridiculously tiny, but require a dock with a fan. The low end is a N4200 and it goes up from there.</p><p>In terms of bang-for-the-buck the Pentium G4560 is a cheap workhorse - more powerful than the CPUs above, but it’s a desktop CPU and requires a fan. It works in many of the mini-ITX motherboards so you could build a relatively small desktop system a few inches larger than a NUC. I’ve seen mini-ITX cases around 9x9 inches.</p><p>After that you’re looking at the i3-8100 desktop CPU and higher.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Groove On)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2018 16:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955700#p955700</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Re: Inexpensive headless fanless computer]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955697#p955697</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>What if you get a very hot day and need a fan to cool and refresh yourself ?</p><br /><p><span class="postimg"><img src="https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/strategist/2017/06/20/fan/20-fan-lede.w710.h473.jpg" alt="PunBB bbcode test" title="PunBB bbcode test"/></span></p><p>:-)</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[null@example.com (Beto-Music)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2018 14:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=955697#p955697</guid>
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