MK V Littledot has 32 Ohm output-impdance [1] and HD600 has 300 Ohm input-impedance. That is around 1:10 and should match just from this point of view.
I suppose the Apogee Groove as a mobile USB-device has much less than 32 Ohm and should fit too (when it has enough power being an 5V USB device). Apogee and Behringer do no specify the output-impedance of the phones output.
@skip
Yes, the dynamic equalizing with Constant Current Drive™ is not snake-oil but patent-oil ;-)
@beakybird
The Audio-Technica ATH-M50X has 38 Ohm. Behringer mixers sometimes have 47 Ohm output-impedance (don't know for the Xenyx Q802USB). If 47 Ohm should be true, 38 Ohm and even 80 Ohm can be critcal (bass hump, intransparency). But at least depends on your liking. - Power enough has the Xenyx, from what I read, no separate headphone-amp needed in this regard IMHO.
How high is the impedance of your headphones, beakybird?
I just sold my Sennheiser HD650 headphones because I was getting noise complaints from family that I don't get with my Audio Technica ATH-M50X. For solo digital piano, I liked the much cheaper Audio Technica headphones as much as the Sennheiser HD650.
I was thinking of getting the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm model. I think, but I'm not sure, that the Xenyx will provide enough power to it. I have an Ocean Bravo headphone amp as well that I haven't been using.
I can't afford the Apogee Groove, but it looks really cool!
]]>I think there is something in the current amp thing - it's not all snake oil. However, it can also cause a different problem, as described here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/c...rent-drive
Greg.
]]>beakybird wrote:OK, let's say I have high impedance headphones. I'm running Pianoteq out of a Xenyx Q802USB. The headphone output goes really loud. Why do I need a headphone amp besides?
Specs say this about headphone output: +21dBu / 150 Ohms (+21dBm). I don't know what this gibberish means!
That means your Phones Output can provide max. 8.7 Veff (=21dBu) when a HP with 150 Ohm is connected. The output-impedance is not specified in the Behringer Xenyx manual, could be anything.
How high is the impedance of your headphones, beakybird?
@bebop603
I have problems with that Apogee "gibberish": Constant Current Drive™
They want to "compensates for the nonlinearities – acoustic, mechanical or electrical" [1]Acoustic?!?
Maybe it is just marketing speech to say it has near zero output impedance (but I don't know) with a little magic. Have you heard that little soap bar with pianoteq?
Yes, I understand the electrical part but have no idea how a constant-current drive could compensate for acoustic or mechanical nonlinearities. Marketing people. :0
I've been using the apogee groove for the last 2 months with pianoteq. The sound with Senn HD600 is comparable to my rather hefty headphone amp (MK V Littledot dual mono) driven by an Echo Indigo, except just a hair softer on the very top end. I like the Apogee with Pianoteq: It's literally plug and play from a usb2 port (mac mini) and latency is 1.2 msec(undetectable to my ears). I'd recommend it, especially if you can find one for a discount on the $295 which is not hard if you look. B and H (in the States) sell preowned versions for about 2/3 the price.
OK, let's say I have high impedance headphones. I'm running Pianoteq out of a Xenyx Q802USB. The headphone output goes really loud. Why do I need a headphone amp besides?
Specs say this about headphone output: +21dBu / 150 Ohms (+21dBm). I don't know what this gibberish means!
That means your Phones Output can provide max. 8.7 Veff (=21dBu) when a HP with 150 Ohm is connected. The output-impedance is not specified in the Behringer Xenyx manual, could be anything.
How high is the impedance of your headphones, beakybird?
@bebop603
I have problems with that Apogee "gibberish": Constant Current Drive™
They want to "compensates for the nonlinearities – acoustic, mechanical or electrical" [1]
Acoustic?!?
Maybe it is just marketing speech to say it has near zero output impedance (but I don't know) with a little magic. Have you heard that little soap bar with pianoteq?
Specs say this about headphone output: +21dBu / 150 Ohms (+21dBm). I don't know what this gibberish means!
]]>and I'm sure that they would sound better if I had the 250 ohm headphones
Not necessarily, it depends strongly on the impedance of the headphone-output. Traditional headphone-outputs often have output-impedances of 120 Ohm, 100 Ohm, 60 Ohm, sometimes 32 Ohm. If you connect an 32 Ohm headphone to it, you get an unnatural bass-boost and poor impulse-response with flat-balanced headphones. If a headphone is already bass-heavy by itself, like many Sennheiser HD5xx-Series, things become even worse.
With those traditional high-Ohm outputs an 250 Ohm HP usually sounds better, than an 32 Ohm HP for example. But since the mobile revolution more and more hp-outputs are low impedance <5 Ohm for energy efficiency and low-voltage reasons. On those outputs 32 Ohm headphones can sound beautiful and strong, as the recommended output:input ratio of 1:8 takes place.
]]>In my opinion it is crucial for impulse response of piano sounds to have very low output impedance at the headphone-output. A common rule of thumb is at least 1:8.
]]>For a long time, I used on my synthesizer Yahama motif XF8 a Sennheiser HD650 which remains a very good headphoe (although I now find the piano "natural" XF8 very mediocre since the discovery of pianoteq)
By asking an amateur pianist who plays every day several hours on a real Bosendorfer of 2m of 1983 to compare a few chords recorded on his instrument with a zoom H2 of 4 years and the same agreements under standard Pianoteq 6 (trial) with the fxp "Bosendorfer imperial" pianoteq 5 by Bluethner, the pianist found the Pianoteq 6 version almost more pleasant and clearer than the recording of the real piano, although harmonics a little less rich.
The only real problem for an amateur pianist remaining fingers wrists and arms ...
Greg
]]>For the very high price of this model... it have to be good.
Not that the good, between the best models, necessarily would mean good enough to get a true natural feeling.What about creat databank of equalizer curves ofr pianoteq, in reference to a lot of headphones models. Most headphones have not a flat response.
bebop603 wrote:Sennheiser HD600/650. Detailed, warm,musical without being overly analytical. Need a good amp, though. Apogee groove works well.
I use a Senn HD600 now with pianoteq + apogee groove. I sounds very natural to me, though I have to work on tweaking some things on the pianoteq models on the new V6.
Sometimes the bass is little too much, and detail needs to reduced a bit by backing off mikes and reducing hammer hardness, etc. I personally didn't like
the AKG 240 at all with Pianoteq. It's super flat and clinical just like studio headphones are supposed to be, but just didn't sound "alive" enough for me.
What about creat databank of equalizer curves ofr pianoteq, in reference to a lot of headphones models. Most headphones have not a flat response.
Sennheiser HD600/650. Detailed, warm,musical without being overly analytical. Need a good amp, though. Apogee groove works well.