Modartt user forum - MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-14T17:05:51Z

@Gilles:

That's true. I'll working on that. But I miss the necessary cable handling this.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T22:43:34Z

I'm pretty sure a saved wav file from the Mac and the Windows versions would be exactly the same. The only real test is recording the analog output (from line out) from each version and let us compare those.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T21:55:56Z

Looking at these test results for the P5, I'm less confident that it's an impedance issue: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/b...asurements

Two other ideas to try if you have nothing better to do (I'm not confident they will yield anything):
- disable all inputs (e.g mic)
- create a version of your audio file that is inverted (i.e shift the phase by 180 degrees) and play that one on one OS, and the original on the other, and see if they sound the same.

Greg

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T13:19:36Z

I really don't understand what could be the problem. The internal DAC is the same as my Mac Pro...

From https://fr.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac+Mini...down/30410

... Cirrus Logic 4208-CRZ Audio Codec (a returning champion from a bevy of recent Apple products including the Mid 2013 MacBook Air and Mac Pro)

Waiting for your audio examples...

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T10:51:51Z

I'll try to manage producing files for posting it here. Will take its time.
Dito listening to the files on a smartphone.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T06:53:53Z

(and don't forget to try setting the audio interface to the same sample rate as the audio file, to make sure there is no sample rate conversion. I don't know how to do this on a Mac, though)

Another thing that would be useful would be to record the output of both OS's, using a good quality external recorder, and uploading the recordings so that others can hear what you are. I know this might not be easy though.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T06:40:04Z

Thanks again - I must apologise for overlooking that you were using a dual boot system.

I still think you simply have to try and borrow an amp or external audio interface. That is the next step.

Have you tried listening to that sample audio file that you created, on your smartphone? I know the headphones work well with the phone, but it's not clear to me whether you have listened to the Pianoteq recording using your phone.

If I'm right about an amp fixing the problem, you don't have to get an expensive one. E.g the FiiO A1 - about $40 in Australia.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T06:28:49Z

@skip & @rac:

- Headphones: I have P5 series one

- Windows on a MAC:
As I wrote at the beginning, we are speaking about WINDOWS/MAC on a MAC MINI already in dualboot. That's the conundrum. Absolutely same hardware, because it's the same machine with two different OS, leading to different sound.

Sadly I do not have an amplifier (I in fact do have one, it's a small tube-amplifier - model TI24 from Cayin - but using it with headphones is no very good idea). And yes, using the P5 with a smartphone functions very well. It's one reason I bought this model. As you wrote, skip, this should not be something of matter if I use same equipment, which I do.

This effect survived over 2 years and with different versions of OS, both MAC OSX and Windows, as I mentioned. All in all its no real problem, I'll use windows in future for pianoteq. But it leaves a questionmark on APPLE. Shouldn't be a Mac THE system for audio-production? That's what I thought. On the other side, Apple is leaving the path for professionalists more and more, turning into a childish system for noobs (sorry, but thats obvious).

@scherbakov:
Yes, I used the same presets.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T06:18:19Z

Do you have the same preset in pianotec on different systems?

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T04:05:33Z

rAC wrote:

Analogus perhaps you could try installing Windows on your Mac?

Agreed - that would be a good test. However, even then, there's a chance that Windows will configure the audio interface differently to how Mac OS does. For example, I have seen a case where the output impedance of the integrated audio interface actually changes, depending on whether it has been configured for a line out, or a headphone out.
I'm trying to eliminate the analog characteristics of the audio interface from the equation altogether.

Analogus: if you have a hi-fi amp with a headphone output and a line input, you could use that as the headphone amp. (but I would not recommend it for continued use, because hi-fi amps tend to have quite high output impedances, which are not always compatible with low impedance headphones).

If you play that audio file using a smartphone with those headphones, you may find that it sounds better than both the Mac and the PC. Smartphones have a very low output impedance, and your headphones are designed to work well with smartphones. (and other portable devices) I'm assuming for the moment that the specs of your headphones are the same as the Series 2 specs that I found.
EDIT: found the series 1 specs - not identical but close.

Greg.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T02:34:19Z

skip wrote:

.... But, to just prove that it's NOT the OS, it doesn't matter what you use - just has to be the same equipment on both systems.
Greg

Analogus perhaps you could try installing Windows on your Mac?

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T02:01:56Z

Just checked the specs of the P5 series 2 (is that what you have?) - they are very low impedance (22 ohms). If you're going to buy amp or audio interface, try to get one with a very low output impedance - say, 5 ohms or less. But, to just prove that it's NOT the OS, it doesn't matter what you use - just has to be the same equipment on both systems.

Greg

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T01:22:48Z

Thanks. So you are connecting the headphones directly to the internal audio interface of each. If you are listening at the same volume (that's critical), my guess is that the output impedance of the audio interface is different between the Mac & PC. This can be tested by using a headphone amplifier.

It might be worth making sure the sample rate of the audio interface on both systems matches that of the audio file, just to eliminate the possibility that the sample rate conversion is not causing a change in the sound. (highly unlikely though)

If you can't try a headphone amp, can you get hold of an external audio interface,even just temporarily?

Greg.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T01:13:10Z

There is no long 'chain'. Its my Mac Mini and one pair of headphones (B&W P5).

No 'enhancements' in Mac nor in Windows (muliple checked this point).

You see - very simple. The differences in both systems are comparable with the differences lets say between a K2 in pianoteq 5 compared in pianoteq 6. Not extrem, but you recognize it over time and you will prefer one.

Re: MAC versus PC - same hardware - sound worse on MAC

2017-09-13T00:57:04Z

I'll be astounded if it's the Mac OS, and we are a long way from making that conclusion.

What is your audio chain on both systems?

Have you double checked that on both systems, all enhancements are turned off in the audio settings? (I'm not familiar with the Mac, but on Windows, there is often a section where all manner of adjustments can be made to the sound, in the properties of the playback device)

Greg.