I managed to fix it by re-programming the controller to output notes on channel 1, even though it looked like it already was on channel 1.

sounds like unusual behaviour from the keyboard tbh.

If you turn your keyboard off with the power switch, wait a few secs, turn it back on, does it operate normally again for a time?

If that's so - try gaffing the connections (AC and/or MIDI) so they don't suffer any physically induced jitter issues. (micro power or micro disconnections of MIDI can make these keyboards spit some odd MIDI data - playing can vibrate old connectors loose in time - and maybe opening the case and doing some basic maintenance in there could also be a really good thing).

Hope that helps - but if not, it still doesn't seem related to this thread exactly but might make a good new thread for discovery.

I get a problem where some notes properly go off, but others don't and it's somewhat random.
I narrowed it down to notes where the 'Note ON' comes in one channel, but the 'Note Off' is sent on another channel.
When that happens, the note stays on. The correct note is listed for 'Note ON' and 'Note OFF', but they just come in on different channels.

The sustain pedal is clearly off. I have the option for "Notes Channe: Any" checked.

Any ideas on how to fix this? Should keyboard controllers always send the note on, and note off on the same channel?

- When my V-Piano sends low note-off velocities, it's because of my playing and not an issue with the keyboard. The note-off is triggered roughly halfway back (which appears to be realistic according  to what's been said)
- I would expect low velocities to have quiet key release noise (which happens), and the note to cut off quickly no matter what
- Pianoteq doesn't cope properly with low note-off velocities and continues to sound notes far too long
- The workaround of adjusting the velocity curve is perfectly acceptable. It's no big deal, and any adjustment to the algorithm would simply be a tidy-up.

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Yes, although on a real piano the release time depends on the key position, not its velocity. As long as the key is depressed more than halfway (approximately), the damper remains lifted, hence is not in contact with the strings, and the sound lasts as long as it can.

Ok, so the sound won't continue when you do actually release the key fully, no matter how hard or soft you do it. Reading the midi spec, it appears it's up to the hardware manufacturer how they implement note-off velocities, so they'll obviously set them up for their own hardware rather than Pianoteq so what they send is neither "right" nor "wrong". I'm curious about the furious defence of Pianoteq and the idea that low note-off velocities shouldn't be sent to it. What's the point of that part of the range then? If Pianoteq treated these as completely released keys, there would be absolutely no detrimental effect.

I didn't say  that low note-off velocities shouldn't be sent to Pianoteq. On the contrary, if a key is released very slowly and the keyboard sends a low release velocity to Pianoteq, that isn't a problem, the sound will last a certain time (the time the damper would have taken to reach the string in the case of an acoustic piano) and everything is fine.

The only 'problem' is when a keyboard sends a low release velocity whereas the key hasn't been released slowly, which does happen on several digital keyboards. Then, if you use Pianoteq's default release velocity curve, you won't be happy because the sound will not correspond to what you have played. But actually this is not a real problem, as you can adjust Pianoteq's release velocity curve to get the proper response.

The fact that you have to adjust  Pianoteq's release velocity curve to a given keyboard is unavoidable: there is no standard withing the hardware manufacturers, so you cannot expect a given release velocity curve to work fine in all cases.

In conclusion, there is no problem, only the fact that you may need to adjust  Pianoteq's release velocity curve, depending on your hardware.

Yes, although on a real piano the release time depends on the key position, not its velocity. As long as the key is depressed more than halfway (approximately), the damper remains lifted, hence is not in contact with the strings, and the sound lasts as long as it can.

Ok, so the sound won't continue when you do actually release the key fully, no matter how hard or soft you do it. Reading the midi spec, it appears it's up to the hardware manufacturer how they implement note-off velocities, so they'll obviously set them up for their own hardware rather than Pianoteq so what they send is neither "right" nor "wrong". I'm curious about the furious defence of Pianoteq and the idea that low note-off velocities shouldn't be sent to it. What's the point of that part of the range then? If Pianoteq treated these as completely released keys, there would be absolutely no detrimental effect.

Adjusting the note-off velocity curve is exactly what I do. Sorry, but as I've never played a real piano (well, not since I was a teenager about 27 years ago when I couldn't play) I'm a bit lacking in knowledge on this, but does a real piano actually continue to sound for a lot longer if you let go of a key very gently?

Yes, although on a real piano the release time depends on the key position, not its velocity. As long as the key is depressed more than halfway (approximately), the damper remains lifted, hence is not in contact with the strings, and the sound lasts as long as it can.

BTW, when playing normally, a digital piano should not send release velocities lower than say 10. Those velocities should only be achievable when exaggerating a lot the release time. The good news is that even if that happens, you can correct it easily by adjusting the release velocity curve adequately.

It is not a note-off with a zero velocity, though, if you look into the MIDI monitor of Pianoteq when playing notehang.mid, it is registered as a note-off with a '1' velocity, so the note is actually dampered, even if very little.

So, for now, I suggest that you raise the lowest point of the 'note-off velocity curve' in Pianoteq, so that note-off with velocity 1 are actually dampered a bit faster.

Can you easily achieve any note-off velocity in the 1-127 range with your keyboard, or are those note-off with a '1' velocity rare accidents while most other note-off are in the 40-80 range (which seems to be the case on most keyboards with note-off velocity) ?

Adjusting the note-off velocity curve is exactly what I do. Sorry, but as I've never played a real piano (well, not since I was a teenager about 27 years ago when I couldn't play) I'm a bit lacking in knowledge on this, but does a real piano actually continue to sound for a lot longer if you let go of a key very gently?

To answer your question, I can easily get these low note-off velocities on purpose, and I get them from time to time by accident (say, every 3 or 4 minutes or so). Whether that means bad technique or not, I've no idea.

As a complete aside, I am booked in for a 15 minute session to play a Steinway Grand in June at the Glasgow West End Festival. Pretty excited!

So, for now, I suggest that you raise the lowest point of the 'note-off velocity curve' in Pianoteq, so that note-off with velocity 1 are actually dampered a bit faster.

Can you easily achieve any note-off velocity in the 1-127 range with your keyboard, or are those note-off with a '1' velocity rare accidents while most other note-off are in the 40-80 range (which seems to be the case on most keyboards with note-off velocity) ?

Bankie, can you post a MIDI file that reproduces your issue ? (you can send it to https://www.pianoteq.com/support_form?direct if you prefer). I can't reproduce it, Pianoteq interprets note-off messages with a 0 velocity as note-off with a default (64) velocity, so maybe it was a note-off with a velocity of 1 that you heard ringing ?

That form won't let me attach a .mid file, but I've uploaded to Dropbox. The final note has a note off velocity of zero: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s0t3196ss6iwm...g.mid?dl=0

For info, I'm playing on a Roland V-Piano. Midi.org unfortunately doesn't quote the range for Note Off in its summary, but on a Google search the first few specs I came across do quote the range 0-127 (e.g. http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/MI...I4.shtml). I still think regardless of whether a zero is valid or means something other than a note off that Pianoteq should regard it as a note-off, since ignoring it (or perhaps it's just sustaining it for far too long) doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever in the sphere of piano playing.