I recommend an external audio interface over your internal soundcard. It will sound better and be able to run with lower latencies. You want to be able run around 10ms or below to avoid a noticeable delay in between playing a note and hearing the sound. I have no experience with the Prosonus 44VSR, but it looks fine. If you will only playing your piano with it (i.e. don't need other input channels) you might consider the Presonus AudioBox-USB which is a bit cheaper.
]]>Here's a quick idea, in Pianoteq's main interface, the "design" section for a modern grand like the latest Grotrian:
Set "energy" to something like 0.07 - and "bloom" to something like 2 seconds, up the "Q factor" to something like 1.26 and "cutoff to maybe 1.25 and then in the "tuning" box, change "direct sound duration" to something around 0.70 - it's not so subtle for some ears but for me it is one easy enhancement worth tweaking back down from. (Hovering the mouse over the controls gives info about what each setting means).
Couple that with a slightly softer velocity curve and Dynamics at say 45. You get amazing range, warmth with hardness at forte.
For me this kind of thing works on the sense of blooming long notes while initial higher overtones dissipate. With the right reverb and virtual mics it has been a nice trick to make Pianoteq sing even more pleasantly for me.
Qexl,
I created a new track template in Reaper with your settings, I named it "Grotrian Qexl", and I feel very comfortable with it !
Noel,
A 'soundcard' isn't needed if you have an audio/MIDI interface, which the Presonus that Sweetwater recommends is. BTW it seems to be a 44VSL not 44VSR. In which case you will need speakers to go with it (or possibly cabling to route it through your stereo) unless you want to limit yourself to headphones.
What is it that takes the digital information and turns it into audio you can listen to thru phones or amplifier and speakers? With an integrated audio chip that my PC's mainboard has, does that take Pianoteq's data and convert it into the audio, or does the audio/MIDI interface perform that role? On my old XP box w/ GigaStudio 4 the m-Audio Delta card was the audio system so the onboard audio chip wasn't used when using GS.
Sounds like I need something like the 44VSL. Do you have another you can personally recommend? I will be playing Pianoteq, adding some synth and guitar tracks using some type of software. I think the 44VSL comes w/ some basic recording software.
]]>A 'soundcard' isn't needed if you have an audio/MIDI interface, which the Presonus that Sweetwater recommends is. BTW it seems to be a 44VSL not 44VSR. In which case you will need speakers to go with it (or possibly cabling to route it through your stereo) unless you want to limit yourself to headphones.
]]>I'm intrigued and can't wait to try Pianoteq myself! Plus, have to check out Linux sampler for my sampletekk sounds ;o) Most of all though, I just retired and have more time available to play and get into lessons. I have suffered from being too impatient for lessons and even though I took classical guitar lessons I've gotten away w/ playing by ear and this has impaired my progress immensely!
Addendum: Do I need another 'sound card' beyond a midi interface to optimize how Pianoteq works on a Windows 7 PC, or is the integrated audio chip sufficient? I know to use Gigastuidio I used an m-Audio Delta card w/ midi interface, but it was also a sound card beyond just a midi interface. Thanks in advance
]]>I love the sound of my Ravenscroft sampled piano particularly but I haven't used it for 18 months because it can't be as expressive as Pianoteq. I feel the limits of the sampled instrument in everything I play. I have to coddle it through any fast repetitions and those reps sound same-ish. The longer notes are predictable and unalterable. The entire general sound is permanently baked into the samples and so on.
You put the spinpoint on what makes me feel that when I play Pianoteq i'm playing a piano and not a computer !
I can pick any Pianoteq piano and play for hours, knowing that I don't have to alter my style or repertoire, or avoid certain notes sounding too clunky when repeated in quick succession. It doesn't limit my ability to play like I'm at a real piano. My MP11 helps. But I'd argue that if I didn't have Pianoteq, I wouldn't desire the Kawaii keys.
Yes, that's The wrong side with Pianoteq : Now I do want this Kawai keyboard instead of my Studiologic SL 990 pro !
]]>if you compared striking a key or two at X velocity on your favorite sampled piano, in isolation from your playing per se, that you would find the sampled sound more authentic, less electronic as it were than pianoteq
The Grotrian piano in PTQ still gives me goosebumps. I have retired my Ravenscroft sampled instrument 18 months ago (and others before that).
Hitting two or more notes in a row particularly is bothersome to me in sampled instrument packs. Repetition, particularly quick reps can be glaringly unrealistic.
With sample technology, every time you hit a key, you're kind of copy/pasting the same samples over and over, maybe a bunch of different velocity samples with maybe some extra computation, sympathetic resonance added in.
In Pianoteq, the full model calculates more than just "what if, for this velocity we paste this sample over the top of the last sample as you hit the keys". It kind of keeps a theoretical physical sound-scape running without regard to static base samples.
Also more levels of velocity can be accounted for, making nuanced playing more realistic.
So I am in the camp that says there are no down sides to Pianoteq which will certainly only improve.
when someone here says 'playability' what really does that reflect?
the 'connected' feeling between you as the player and pianoteq that you get.
Yeah, well said rAC.
For me, playability is definitely about greater levels of responsiveness and precision.
On top, it's about having more options rather than settling for less.
I love the sound of my Ravenscroft sampled piano particularly but I haven't used it for 18 months because it can't be as expressive as Pianoteq. I feel the limits of the sampled instrument in everything I play. I have to coddle it through any fast repetitions and those reps sound same-ish. The longer notes are predictable and unalterable. The entire general sound is permanently baked into the samples and so on.
Every time I feel like altering a Pianoteq piano I'm playing, there's nothing I can think of that can't be changed to my liking.
You can make it sound full or make it sound like a shiny metal and glass thing with crystalline strings or as dull as tennis shoe hitting a wall if you want. Where are the limits I asks ya?
I can pick any Pianoteq piano and play for hours, knowing that I don't have to alter my style or repertoire, or avoid certain notes sounding too clunky when repeated in quick succession. It doesn't limit my ability to play like I'm at a real piano. My MP11 helps. But I'd argue that if I didn't have Pianoteq, I wouldn't desire the Kawaii keys.
Sometimes it's great to play or write music to suit the limitations you set for yourself of course but when those limits are permanent, hard and fast, arbitrary, then it's really not so inspiring, especially over the years.
In short, Pianoteq is inspiration. It just picks up and plays more like I'm sitting at a live piano. I am always battling harder with that perception using sampled instruments.
So much detail involved, and I do apologise for being a wordy person..
Here's a quick idea, in Pianoteq's main interface, the "design" section for a modern grand like the latest Grotrian:
Set "energy" to something like 0.07 - and "bloom" to something like 2 seconds, up the "Q factor" to something like 1.26 and "cutoff to maybe 1.25 and then in the "tuning" box, change "direct sound duration" to something around 0.70 - it's not so subtle for some ears but for me it is one easy enhancement worth tweaking back down from. (Hovering the mouse over the controls gives info about what each setting means).
Couple that with a slightly softer velocity curve and Dynamics at say 45. You get amazing range, warmth with hardness at forte.
For me this kind of thing works on the sense of blooming long notes while initial higher overtones dissipate. With the right reverb and virtual mics it has been a nice trick to make Pianoteq sing even more pleasantly for me.
Increase the velocity curve and lower the Dynamics to around 30 and you have more of a typical sampled piano sound.
I simply cannot tweak those kinds of isolated details up or down in my sampled pianos, nor the onboard MP11 sounds, to the same degree to enhance their responsiveness and playability.
It's a whole different universe for me - and I've been into music tech since the late 70s, midi and all those horrible old sounds since the early 90s. I really wouldn't be returning to the forum except for the love of the product and have been seeking the best sounds all along, I have no interests to declare and Modartt has not paid me.
Higher praise maybe than some would give, but it's a no-brainer to my ears after all these years and I love it when others also discover it. It can change everything you knew about your use of the piano.
]]>Greg.
]]>Noel,
I would suggest that 'playability' is the 'connected' feeling between you as the player and pianoteq that you get. I have some other samplebased pianos and synths, none of them seem to respond as well as pianoteq does.
So this sounds like you are also describing expressiveness which seems a little less esoteric. Would you also say that if you compared striking a key or two at X velocity on your favorite sampled piano, in isolation from your playing per se, that you would find the sampled sound more authentic, less electronic as it were than pianoteq, but that in the end due to the superior connected feel or expressiveness, pianoteq would be your go-to piano for recording for example?
Pardon me I'm just learning here!
]]>I have almost all Sampletekk grands. They are among the best sampled libraries in the market. Pianoteq, however, is in a different ballgame. Maybe not as full sounding as some sampled grands, but infinitely more playable and adjustable.
Interesting. There seems to be some consensus that 'playability' shines for Pianoteq and perhaps pure sound-wise might not be quite as compelling as the best the sampled world has to offer for at least some. I understand now it's still possible for me to use my old Sampletekk grands using linuxsampler so this may ultimately solve my issues. Once I settle on an external audio/midi interface I can try the demo here and see what all the buzz has been about.
I'm not an advanced keyboard player so when someone here says 'playability' what really does that reflect? I'm wondering if ultimately it implies the player has less need to 'adapt' to a particular piano's weaknesses and idiosyncracies or something along those lines or that perhaps more playable means more forgiving.
]]>FYI gigasampler files can be played on Win/Mac/Linux with the "Linuxsampler" program, i.e to replace GS4. I use both Pianoteq and Linuxsampler on linux, and my favorite piano is the SampleTekk TBO gigasampler format. Though I find Pianoteq pianos to be quite good, I still prefer the TBO overall, and I don't find the playablity to be any different (which may be a statement about my technique as much as anything). For me there is still something slightly artificial about the Pianoteq sound, though I can't say exactly what that is except that there is a certain "szzz" to the sound. That said, I use Pianteq 100% of the time because I like that it records everything you play (useful to save ideas), and I do like the wide variety of sounds it can make. I mute it when playing other sounds by setting the velocity curve to 0 (have a preset for this).
Fascinating, that you for the perspective. Does it still require a GSIF driver in order to play GS file format samples? I'm interested--I wonder if I picked up an external USB audio/midi interface like Prosonus 44VSR that should work eh? Windows 7 SP1 is what I would install into.
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