Modartt user forum - Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (jcfelice88keys) — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:16:59 +0000

My musings represent the forty-third entry in this thread, so it's about time we sum up this discussion in this manner: All you are going to get from this thread are ... OPINIONS. Unless this thread is brought to a usable end, this discussion will certainly go on for much longer than is needed.

Surely, various peoples' opinions can be highly valuable as to which product(s) will be good candidates for you to try for yourself.

In the end, however, it ultimately comes down to your needing to try out the DP candidates in your price range ... for yourself. No one else in the world can tell you with any authority which DP will be the best option or purchase for you. If a given make/model combination is unavailable to you to try in person, then simply "reject" that choice and move onward.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (bm) — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 06:08:37 +0000

LTECpiano wrote:

Hi Bruno ... nice objective post. So, you did go with the GP300?
Lanny

In fact I bought the GP500 enjoying a promotion for a piano on show. The reason is purely aesthetic (lacquered model) thinking that one of my daughters might recover this piano someday. From a technical point of view, the keyboard is exactly the same on the GP300 and GP500. The built-in GP500 sound generator and a little more advanced, but so much less than Pianoteq that I only used it 10 minutes in 6 months (just to check how much the built-in Bechstein, Steinway and Bosendorfer sounds were disappointing compared to Pianoteq, which he continues to evolve). the GP500 model has compared to the GP300 a pedal connector (not tested) can be interesting if it is possible to add a 4th pedal managed by Pianoteq. The added extra-piano sounds added are of a very disappointing level (prefer a good vsti).
In addition, the relatively low height of the GP300 / GP500, and the depth of the upper shelf are very convenient to place a laptop (with Pianoteq) in place of the desk. The low height allows to keep access to the keys of the computer and ensures a good readability of the screen.

Bruno

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (theinvisibleman) — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 22:46:55 +0000

Kawai ca98

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (LTECpiano) — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:11:26 +0000

Hi Bruno ... nice objective post. So, you did go with the GP300?

Lanny

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (sammo) — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 18:00:55 +0000

I do use PX-5s for Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff etc. I find it very good and accurate in whole range. Here is Chopin recorded with this setup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVEutKEU4CM

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (bm) — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 06:28:54 +0000

For the (unfortunately not advanced) classical pianist that I am, after looking for (and tried) keyboard for 3 months at the begining of the year, I finally oriented for exclusive use with Pianoteq towards the compromise of the Casio GP500. In practice the GP300 model that has exactly the same action would have been enough. My selection criteria were as follows. Accustomed since the age of 6 to play on an acoustic grand piano, I did not want the action of a upright piano. I also wanted a keyboard in a piece of furniture, more stable to play. (I already had a Yamaha Motif XF8 synthesizer which I complained about). Continuing to play regularly between 13h and 14h on an acoustic piano (Bosendorfer 200), I wanted a keyboard hard enough not to be destabilized by switching from digital to acoustics. At first I was thinking about buying a more expensive model, but I thought that the life of an electronic keyboard was not unlimited (usually about 10 years) and that significant progress technology could intervene by then.
Ideally, the most appealing solution was the acquisition of a new Yamaha C3x silent SH2 grand piano. The test was very attractive with a high-end headphones, but the solution is not only very expensive but cumbersome, for someone who does not necessarily want to have a Yamaha acoustic piano model in his living room (I hope eventually another acoustic piano model in the future).
The silent SH2 is very good (especially compared to horrible silent Genio badly set that I could test), but the Pianoteq generator is in my opinion as good see now better (and it does not only offer Yamaha sounds) .
As a second choice, (still in the perspective of using Pianoteq), the Yamaha model "avant grand" N1 (not N1x that has a piano upright mechanism).
In practice during the test I was a little disappointed by the touch I was hoping closer to a real keyboard (subjective impression of not being able to push the keys ending too quickly in abutment). This model also seemed already (too) old in the Yamaha range and remaining very expensive.
In a more reasonable price range, I was hoping a lot Clavinova keyboards (clp675) and especially Kawai (ca78) but was even more disappointed (impression - of course subjective personal and exaggerated- to push my fingers in marshmallow) . At an attractive price, I found a model Korg (g1) a little firmer, and more expensive Roland (hp605) also a little firmer, but no comparison possible with the interaction of a real piano keyboard tailed. The keyboard of Bluthner e-keyboard 2 did not convince me either.
Finally, after trying a Casio GP300 almost without transition, after a Bosendorfer 225 used the keyboard was really quite "tired", I found the action relatively acceptable, hence the compromise made with Casio GP500 who has the same keyboard.
After 6 months of decline, I am satisfied with this keyboard, reasonably firm, which allows a very fast game, nuanced (of course only with Pianoteq) - and within the limits of the very bad pianist that I am -.
The manufacturer Casio deliberately chose not to implement the double escape mechanism of a grand piano but in practice it does not disturb me when I go back on an acoustic piano.

Bruno

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (Qexl) — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:26:03 +0000

Considering leverage it ends up quite the opposite. Placing a pivot back far enough, it's going to be capable of being lighter than anything shorter.

Related to the same principle as levering a vehicle out of a bog with just your own body weight, you'd be lucky to find a long stick because a short one wouldn't work.

But, altogether keyboard systems have developed differently by various manufacturers and they will have particular specifications regarding weights and ways to make their different keyboards behave, during and after touch. It's a wide set of issues which make keys feel they way they do, probably lightness being a fairly light weight factor in the big picture really.

I love that Beto-Music posted that image, it does give me a chuckle - to think the future of high end digital pianos could end up being big as a real piano, for realism

I'm sure plenty of people just go and buy a real piano after putting in time researching the DP options.

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (peterws) — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 20:32:58 +0000

Beto-Music wrote:

Maybe would be better if you could buy a concert grand piano action, hire a cabinetmaker to create a case for it, and add PNOscan sensors (able to turn real pianos into MIDI controller).

would it be comfortable or even desirable to play THAT? Those chunks of wood are soooo long, they'd feel like springs at the hammer end . . . .must be heavy. Very.

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (Qexl) — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 16:46:50 +0000

MP11 is capable of the typical 0-127 midi, so reproducing midi with all velocities is not changed.

Thanks music_guy - Never considered losing data by drifting the top of the curve over to the left - really do not notice it.

This curve has PPP set at 15 and fff at 116:

Velocity = [0, 15, 107, 121; 6, 11, 116, 127]

That curve, by that notion, would only contain something like 80% of possible steps.

I could say "Ouch!" but I wouldn't benefit from more steps anyway.

Just noticed your post on this thread which is related - about hi resolution midi velocity - good points in there - agree Pianoteq makes better use of velocity info by being a more 'living' ecosystem created reactively.

Hadn't given much thought to the available steps when the curve is changed but I'd prefer if it worked differently to what seems to be the inference.

Eg. it would be great if Pianoteq and other VI curves compress/stretch an entire set of possible 128 (or more re hi res) steps into custom curves. It certainly looks to be linear, if only because of the curve's graph (graphical representation may hide inner workings though - but wishful thinking is more likely there).

I only bring that up, because, being physical keys, they could report a billion velocities from our very analog key hits (sensors permitting) and surely a software curve could or should be able to "quantize" and match any given 128 steps to a curve in this way?

In future at least? Or does anyone do this now?

For some reason I just never questioned that the curve would map the full 128 steps to our chosen shape (seems obvious but if I thought otherwise, maybe it's a worthwhile engineering challenge).

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (music_guy) — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 13:37:43 +0000

hag01 wrote:

You can see here what he told me:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads....ost2756609
It seems like some kind of confirmation.

Thanks hag01.

That thread is a bit too "subtle".

The thread should close by confirming that MIDI out of the Kawai MP11 and MP11SE to a VI has a reduced range of only around about 116 rather than the full 128 steps.

Not all Kawai slabs have that surprise. My es100 outputs full 128 MIDI range to a VI (albeit only when I set the onboard keyboard sensitivity to light which probably messes around with the velocity curve lol).

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (hag01) — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 08:49:49 +0000

music_guy wrote:

hag01 wrote:
I got the MP11SE for a few weeks now.
Am I the only one who can't send more than 115 MIDI velocity from this keyboard? No matter how hard I hit the keys?
Like, is this the maximum velocity of the keyboard or is it just me?
Did you confirm this with Kawai James?

You can see here what he told me:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads....ost2756609

It seems like some kind of confirmation.

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (music_guy) — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 03:37:36 +0000

hag01 wrote:

I got the MP11SE for a few weeks now.
Am I the only one who can't send more than 115 MIDI velocity from this keyboard? No matter how hard I hit the keys?
Like, is this the maximum velocity of the keyboard or is it just me?

Did you confirm this with Kawai James?

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (Qexl) — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:03:26 +0000

You saved me breaking out the manual - thanks Hag01. I see the word 'normal' on the readout - but forgot it only changed internal sounds. Nearly wrote "I can't remember if.."

That linear curve might be just fine. Glad it's sorted.

Here's one of the curves I use for bright pianos, in case it gives you some ideas to bounce around:

Velocity = [0, 1, 30, 46, 81, 97, 106; 0, 0, 32, 65, 96, 114, 126]

Select the above line, paste into the velocity box..

Might not work for you, but you might want to adjust around the dots to create those shelves for where your playing fits. Cheers!

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (hag01) — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 19:23:55 +0000

Anyway my in my Pianoteq-MP11SE velocity curve, 112 is the maximum velocity, 115 is already too hard for me.

So far a simple linear curve from 0-0 to 112-127 worked best for me.

Re: Best DP for the advanced classical pianist to connect to Pianoteq

null@example.com (hag01) — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 18:58:11 +0000

stamkorg wrote:

hag01 wrote:
I got the MP11SE for a few weeks now.
Am I the only one who can't send more than 115 MIDI velocity from this keyboard? No matter how hard I hit the keys?
Like, is this the maximum velocity of the keyboard or is it just me?
There should be a setting of "keyboard sensitivity" or something like that in the MP11SE, that allows to set it to light / very light and to play higher velocities

This option doesn't exist in the MP11 nor in the MP11SE, it will only change the behavior of the internal sounds, however, it won't change anything about the MIDI velocity it sends to external devices.