Modartt user forum - If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T13:30:11Z

I need to admit that adaptation is real problem for me. After a year of a regular practice with a PX-150 + Pianoteq (several hours a day) I found myself having a serious problems playing any real piano around me - they just feel worse (less even, less dynamically expressive, less beautiful tone, overall harder to control).

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T13:25:09Z

Be able to play more effectively - yes. Less time adapting, because the feel will be more familiar. I think that's the idea. ;^)

Greg.

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T13:16:10Z

So the idea is to make it as or just even more bad than a real piano? So people could totally enjoy playing the real ones later? LOL!

ADDED: My main issues with a DP's I'd like to be addressed are: a) !!!!LONG FULCRUM!!!!! (please, as big as possible, bigger than on a real ones), b) Most are unnecessary too heavy (to make them as bad as real?), c) better repetitions (better then my PX-150). These are the main 3 not to mention some slightly less important. Although quite happy with my PRIVIA PX-150.

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T13:12:05Z

AKM wrote:

All current "left off" realizations make me very pissed off. It is a total gimmick not adding anything to playability.

I thought that was the whole idea though - to reduce playability, so that when one plays a real piano, they are used to playing an action with this deficiency! Maybe the implementation is no good (?), but the idea makes sense to me. Personally, having little interest in playing real pianos, I'm with you - I'd rather a nice smooth action.

Greg.

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T13:06:35Z

All current "left off" realizations make me very pissed off. It is a total gimmick not adding anything to playability. Just check how it implemented on a say VPC1 - it's just something rubbery slightly touching something during a natural movement of a key. Some people just open the keyboard and remove this "feature" because it is become just better in terms of control. On a real pianos it is all about compromises made between mechanical energy, materials and overall level of the technology state for that times it was invented.

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T12:53:22Z

Thanks for that info, skip. With my apologies to Kawai. I only ever heard it referred to as escapement before.

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T08:48:02Z

SteveLy wrote:

Kawai is getting there, but the escapement implementation is still somewhat rudimentary and does not feel like the real deal. (And the fact that they've invented their own marketing term "let-off" for it is cringe-worthy.)

"Let-off" is not a marketing term at all. Extract from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_maintenance

Let-off, the point when the hammer disengages from the jack and flies freely.

IMHO, it is an absolutely appropriate term to call it. I think Roland call it "escapement feel", which I also think is appropriate.

Greg.

Re: If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T04:03:58Z

Grand Hybrids are okay but not for the money. And the fake hammers (plastic piano hammer look-alikes) are very gimmicky and their movement (that's on display through a clear window) actually reveals a flaw in the design (unlike on a real grand, the hammer does not bounce back if you hold down a key). IMHO Roland's PHA-4 Concert and Kawai's RM2/3 & GF/GF2 actions are better for around half the price (and maybe even Kawai RH3 for a third in the ES8), if you don't mind BYO stand, amp and speakers and no pretty cabinet.

The link you posted is not very clear. All I got was an ad for Bose speakers, and no real info on the page itself till I clicked play again. And the guy says the setup costs $20-$25k!! And I'm not sure how the "real deal" would seamlessly integrate with the virtual world; e.g., these things have piano hammers with felt hardness/softness characteristics that will affect how they interact with the sensors. OTOH, we have those settings in the virtual instruments as well. Real piano action also requires a lot more maintenance than "imitation" actions.

I think the best digital piano action will come from more and more clever and refined engineering that captures the feel while minimising the complexity and maximising the durability of the mechanical design. Kawai is getting there, but the escapement implementation is still somewhat rudimentary and does not feel like the real deal. (And the fact that they've invented their own marketing term "let-off" for it is cringe-worthy.)

PS. Casio deserves credit for the PX-series. Nothing compares at the budget end of the market.

If you don't like Casio's Hybrid Grand action, perhaps this will do...

2016-02-03T00:33:48Z

http://www.keyboardmag.com/video/gear/4722400432001#