The good message first: It ist recognised by a Linux Debian 10 (Buster) and appears as MIDI input in Pianoteq Trial v6.6.0. The Bluetooth connection to the Yamaha was made with a Logilink BT4.0 USB-adapter.

My test-laptop was a slow Celeron N3050 dual-core. With perf index 12..14 I normally do not use it with Pianoteq. So in my quick test the absolute latency and performance is not in the focus. Just the relative increase of BT versus usb-cable interested me.

Keyboard was my old Kawai ES3, which has 5-pole MIDI-in and -out connectors and a USB MIDI port. Note c5 from default Steinway D Prelude was played several times and the overall-latency measured (time between keyclick and PC-speaker sound)

Pianoteq settings: 128 samples buffersize, 48 kHz.

These were the overall-latencies with my normal USB-cable:
[ms]
39
35
36
37
39
37
38
35
35

... and these with the Bluetooth connection instead:
[ms]
80
65
80
76
49
70
52

... horrible sluggish and jittered with the BT-connection! For me unusable to play piano.

Would be interesting, if a faster Laptop, another OS or a USB-Dongle from another vendor can reduce the latency of the BT-path (or if it is broken-by-design ...)

There's an interesting discussion on bt midi latency on (i think) gearslutz. The numbers you're posting seem very optimistic. I think the bottom line was that anything < 20ms is not achievable with the current standard.

Does that mean Bluetooth LE cannot transmit MIDI notes with a minimum latency of 3 ms, in the connected state?
And also not in 6 ms + 3 ms = 9 ms in non-connected state?

steff3 wrote:

and I think one needs btle ( blue tooth low energy or blue tooth 4) for low latency applications

Hi,

I just noticed, that the brand new, portable Kawai ES110 has wireless midi on board. It seems to be "Bluetooth LE", which has lower latency, than Classic Bluetooth technology:

Latency (from a non-connected state):             6 ms
Minimum total time to send data (det. battery life)    3 ms
(from Bluetooth low energy)

Hopefully, it will not add more latency, than a typical usb-to-midi conversion (but I guess that's too optimistic).

Does anybody have already experience with Bluetooth LE? on Linux?

Do external Bluetooth LE solutions exist, that can be connected to a keyboard's USB or standard MIDI port?

cheers

There's an interesting discussion on bt midi latency on (i think) gearslutz. The numbers you're posting seem very optimistic. I think the bottom line was that anything < 20ms is not achievable with the current standard.

Thanks for helps I found the solution ...

Best Dominique

A second queston: You say that it runs perfectly on your iPad. Are you using it to play a piano library installed on the iPad? (If so, which one?) Are you not getting any additional latency at all or dropping of notes?

In any case, I don't understand why this device is for ios and Macs only. I thought that bluetooth was supposed to be a universal standard.

I Use the MD-BT01 add on BTLE Midi componment. It run perfectly on my Ipad from a Nord stage II ! but I Don't achieved to connect it on my MACBOOK PRO

Does somebody have experience with it ?

Dominique

and I think one needs btle ( blue tooth low energy or blue tooth 4) for low latency applications

Hi,

I just noticed, that the brand new, portable Kawai ES110 has wireless midi on board. It seems to be "Bluetooth LE", which has lower latency, than Classic Bluetooth technology:

Latency (from a non-connected state):             6 ms
Minimum total time to send data (det. battery life)    3 ms
(from Bluetooth low energy)

Hopefully, it will not add more latency, than a typical usb-to-midi conversion (but I guess that's too optimistic).

Does anybody have already experience with Bluetooth LE? on Linux?

Do external Bluetooth LE solutions exist, that can be connected to a keyboard's USB or standard MIDI port?

cheers

Jake Johnson wrote:

How much latency are you seeing with the CME WIDI-X8? (I would use wireless headphones for the output.)

I once tried wireless headphones ( http://www.headphone.com/products/sennh...-headphone ) plugged into my normal usb unit and added latency was unacceptable.

Drat. You're spoiling the dream, here. I was hoping to keep one keyboard in the music room and another in a (better heated) room, and be able to choose where to work. And I haven't found a way to keep several keyboards together without either taking up too much of two walls in a corner or using a two-tiered stand that puts one keyboard out of reach while sitting down. Spoiled by playing guitar--you can have six of them sitting right next to you and swap them out easily. Well, even with keeping everything in one room, assuming that Yamaha is putting this system out because they've solved the latency problem, getting rid of some cables will be good.

SteveLy wrote:

I read that Apple has some low-latency wireless MIDI thing going, but if it's proprietary Apple, it's no good to the rest of us.

You may be referring to AppleMIDI/RTP-MIDI that I mentioned in the previous post, and for that there are implementations for most operating systems.

or more like this one
https://developer.apple.com/bluetooth/A...cation.pdf

and I think one needs btle ( blue tooth low energy or blue tooth 4) for low latency applications

Don't know if i can test something by myself...

How much latency are you seeing with the CME WIDI-X8? (I would use wireless headphones for the output.)

I once tried wireless headphones ( http://www.headphone.com/products/sennh...-headphone ) plugged into my normal usb unit and added latency was unacceptable.

A quick Google search shows very few stores as listing them, but the few that do are pricing them at $49.95. (But none in stock, yet...)

I'm hoping that Yamaha has brought the latency down.

I have many years of reliable use with CME WIDI-x8 http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...62#p941262 
even using wind controllers. Trade off of no cables, a bit of latency but you have error correction, not a single "hanging note"

Different rooms? does not make too much sense where if audio coming out?

How much latency are you seeing with the CME WIDI-X8? (I would use wireless headphones for the output.)

I read that Apple has some low-latency wireless MIDI thing going, but if it's proprietary Apple, it's no good to the rest of us.

You may be referring to AppleMIDI/RTP-MIDI that I mentioned in the previous post, and for that there are implementations for most operating systems.