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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[Modartt user forum - Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
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	<updated>2019-01-30T16:48:35Z</updated>
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	<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=3683</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=958707#p958707"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>bachmann wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Static sounds using headphones:&nbsp; I&#039;m experiencing low level sporadic (occurs every so often not at regular intervals) static sounds.&nbsp; My set up is a Scarlet Solo II with an HP 3i laptop (Windows 10), Midi USB to a Roland LX17 piano. The sound quality is better than the Roland inboard sounds IMO.&nbsp; I&#039;ve tried another headphone with same results.<br />Any help would be appreciated.</p><p>PS:&nbsp; Wasn&#039;t sure how to post a new subject and judging from the expertise on the topic of this forum I&#039;m hoping you have an answer.</p></blockquote></div><p>Is it the same when you run the computer on the battery?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[stamkorg]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=3941</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-01-30T16:48:35Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=958707#p958707</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=958691#p958691"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Static sounds using headphones:&nbsp; I&#039;m experiencing low level sporadic (occurs every so often not at regular intervals) static sounds.&nbsp; My set up is a Scarlet Solo II with an HP 3i laptop (Windows 10), Midi USB to a Roland LX17 piano. The sound quality is better than the Roland inboard sounds IMO.&nbsp; I&#039;ve tried another headphone with same results.<br />Any help would be appreciated.</p><p>PS:&nbsp; Wasn&#039;t sure how to post a new subject and judging from the expertise on the topic of this forum I&#039;m hoping you have an answer.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[bachmann]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=6292</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2019-01-30T01:16:29Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=958691#p958691</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936565#p936565"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Geert: I agree, and in fact that&#039;s the same one I recommended right back at the beginning:<br /><a href="http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936506#p936506">http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...06#p936506</a>&nbsp; &nbsp;</p><p>They have the DAC/amp combo too: <a href="http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/">http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/</a>&nbsp; but I&#039;m not sure how well it would work regarding latency/ASIO.&nbsp; </p><p>Greg.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[skip]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=353</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-17T20:46:16Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936565#p936565</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936562#p936562"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>THat is really big output!</p><p>For good value for money, this one is also interesting:</p><p><a href="http://www.jdslabs.com/products/35/objective2-headphone-amplifier">http://www.jdslabs.com/products/35/obje...-amplifier</a></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[geert]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4135</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-17T16:02:51Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936562#p936562</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936550#p936550"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>More or less constant voltage yes. Sometimes, though, when the specs include voltage &amp; power for a range of load impedances, I&#039;ve noticed that the maths doesn&#039;t exactly match a simple ideal voltage generator with a fixed output impedance - the voltage will drop more than it should as the load impedance is reduced.&nbsp; I&#039;m not sure why this happens, but I&#039;m wondering whether it&#039;s due to poor power supply regulation.&nbsp; &nbsp;But yes - the E10K does have a very low output impedance and I&#039;ve been ignoring it in my calculations.&nbsp; Note that the E10K is very different to the E10 - the E10K is a newer design and has a lot more drive than the E10.</p><p>Btw - I noticed the Apogee Duet being mentioned in another recent topic - out of curiousity I checked it&#039;s headphone amp specs - circa 7 Vrms! This is the first USB audio interface that is designed for performing musicians that I&#039;m aware of that has a headphone amp that has a <em>genuinely</em> high voltage output. Two problems though - very expensive, and Mac only. <i class="far fa-smile smiley"></i></p><p>Greg.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[skip]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=353</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-16T13:09:54Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936550#p936550</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936549#p936549"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Greg, you are absolutely right.&nbsp; I did cut some corners there, and did not spend enough time on te subject.</p><p>I assume, the E10 has a farily constant max output voltage, as these opamps have a low internal output impedance and should maintain a rather constant voltage output as long as you stay above the specified minimum load impedance??</p><p>greetings, and thanks that you corrected me on this.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[geert]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4135</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-16T12:43:04Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936549#p936549</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936540#p936540"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Geert:<br />In short, I agree that the K702s should sound pretty loud with the E10K, even for a solo percussive instrument (i.e Pianoteq).&nbsp; It seems rather academic, given that the latency of the E10K is excessive, which I get the impression makes it unusable(?)</p><p>However, I don&#039;t agree with some of the details:<br /></p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>But back to the K70(1)2.&nbsp; The E10k kan output 200 milliWatt, which is at the same time the max power that the K702 may have.<br />This is in 62 Ohm ( the impedance of the K702) some 3,5 Volts, and in 32 Ohms still some 2,5 volts.<br />That gives a acoustic level of between 112 and 115 dB, which is only 5 dB below the pain level.</p></blockquote></div><p>The specs for the E10K say 200mW into 32ohms, and it is incorrect to assume that it can also generate 200mW into 62ohms, or any other impedance for that matter. If the limiting factor for the 200mW into 32ohms is the maximum voltage that the E10K can generate, then that same voltage applied across a 62ohm load will generate only 101mW, and as I said in my previous post, the SPL will be 113dB.&nbsp; &nbsp;(which is still in your range, but I don&#039;t agree with the upper limit of your range.&nbsp; 20*log(2.5/1) + 105 = 113 - not 115)&nbsp; &nbsp;According to <a href="http://www.head-fi.org/t/727793/notes-fiio-e10k-e11k-based-on-pre-production-beta-engineering-samples">http://www.head-fi.org/t/727793/notes-f...ng-samples</a> the E10K is in fact limited to 2.6 Vrms - I had done this research before attempting to calculate the SPL when connected to the 62 ohm K702s.&nbsp; (this is the best info I have found, anyway) 2.6 vs 2.5 hardly makes any difference - a fraction of a dB.</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>This is in 62 Ohm ( the impedance of the K702) some 3,5 Volts, and in 32 Ohms still some 2,5 volts.<br />That gives a acoustic level of between 112 and 115 dB, which is only 5 dB below the pain level.</p></blockquote></div><p>Remember that a piano is percussive, so we are only talking about a &quot;peak&quot; sound level - not an average sound level.&nbsp; &nbsp;Listening to, say, an organ at 115dB would sound much louder than a piano that peaks at 115dB at the moment the hammers strike the strings.&nbsp; Btw I think this post by NwAvGuy is very useful: <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/more-power.html">http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/more-power.html</a></p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>From experience, i can say, that the K702/1 range delivers good output connected to all phones outputs of modern external Audio devices.</p></blockquote></div><p>My M-Audio Fast Track Ultra only puts out 1 Vrms max at it&#039;s headphone outputs, and I am positive that the K702s would not be loud enough for me. </p><p>There&#039;s another aspect that makes it a bit harder for live playing - it&#039;s very difficult to adjust Pianoteq&#039;s volume so that it reaches exactly 100%, without Pianoteq ever wanting to go higher than 100% and then of course distorting. So, we will typically leave a a bit spare (&quot;headrooom&quot;).&nbsp; This makes the peaks of our live playing a bit less than a pre-normalised recording, which can have it&#039;s peak(s) at precisely 100%, with no distortion.&nbsp; We can use the limiter to make it easier to reach 100%, but the limiter will then introduce it&#039;s own distortion, but in a more pleasing way than hard clipping.</p><p>Greg.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[skip]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=353</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-15T23:05:52Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936540#p936540</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936538#p936538"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Ok, the K702 delivers 105 dB/V. That is a quite normal sensitivity compared with others.<br />Not to mention the K550, which delivers 114 dB/V. that,s why I needed that one, as I have lost 20 dB of my hearing.</p><p>But back to the K70(1)2.&nbsp; The E10k kan output 200 milliWatt, which is at the same time the max power that the K702 may have.</p><p>This is in 62 Ohm ( the impedance of the K702) some 3,5 Volts, and in 32 Ohms still some 2,5 volts.<br />That gives a acoustic level of between 112 and 115 dB, which is only 5 dB below the pain level.</p><p>From experience, i can say, that the K702/1 range delivers good output connected to all phones outputs of modern external Audio devices. Le talone, when you use a dedicated phone amp.<br />It would also be totally unimaginable that a wellknown brand like AKG whould develop a headphone that gives too low output level........</p><p>Because of their transparency, they are within this price range,&nbsp; the best for piano.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[geert]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4135</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-15T19:54:30Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936538#p936538</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936537#p936537"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Ok, the K702 delivers 105 dB/V. That is a quite normal sensitivity compared with others.<br />Not to mention the K550, which delivers 114 dB/V. that,s why I needed that one, as I have lost 20 dB of my hearing.</p><p>But back to the K70(1)2.&nbsp; The E10k kan output 200 milliWatt, which is at the same time the max power that the K702 may have.</p><p>This is in 62 Ohm ( the impedance of the K702) some 3,5 Volts, and in 32 Ohms still some 2,5 volts.<br />That gives a acoustic level of between 112 and 115 dB, which is only 5 dB below the pain level.</p><p>From experience, i can say, that the K702/1 range delivers good output connected to all phones outputs of modern external Audio devices. Le talone, when you use a dedicated phone amp.<br />It would also be totally unimaginable that a wellknown brand like AKG whould develop a headphone that gives too low output level........</p><p>Because of their transparency, they are within this price range,&nbsp; the best for piano.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[geert]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4135</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-15T19:53:21Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936537#p936537</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936534#p936534"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Actually I&#039;m surprised the K702s are &quot;hopeless&quot; with the E10K. According to my maths, if Pianoteq is adjusted to output a full scale signal, the peak sound level will be about 113dB SPL (probably even a bit more) which is actually a bit louder (about 4dB) than I can achieve with my setup, and my setup is loud enough with Pianoteq. (I can&#039;t make it VERY loud though - it will distort)&nbsp; There&#039;s no way I would describe my setup as &quot;hopeless&quot; though.</p><p>I have to wonder whether there&#039;s something wrong somewhere.&nbsp; Anyway, if the latency of the E10K is no good, then I suppose we can forget all about the E10K.......</p><p>Greg.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[skip]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=353</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-15T08:22:12Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936534#p936534</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936533#p936533"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>The FiiO E09K and E12 (both amps only - not DACs) could also both drive the K702s very loudly.&nbsp; Also, if you&#039;re happy with the latency using the computer&#039;s integrated audio with the ASIO4ALL driver, you could just connect the amp directly to your computer, and forgo the external audio interface.</p><p>A couple of rather expensive DAC/amps that I <em>suspect</em> would work well regarding latency are the the Centrance DACmini CX and HiFi-M8.&nbsp; Centrance have an ASIO driver for download, and they even have a utility for checking ASIO latency, but I&#039;d check with them to make absolutely sure the driver is compatible with those products. Anyway they also could drive the K702s very strongly, going by the specs. (actually the specs for the HiFi-M8 only give &quot;nominal&quot; output levels, but I found a measurement in a review, and it would be fine, IMHO)</p><p>Greg.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[skip]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=353</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-15T07:17:32Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936533#p936533</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936522#p936522"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Yes, looks very good, with 600 milliwatts. But you should definitely need a AC power supply, as changing batteries every 6 hours is a bit annoying.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[geert]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4135</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-13T20:38:53Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936522#p936522</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936506#p936506"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>anks wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;m really impressed with the AKG K702 headphones, even with the FiiO E10k but I really need something that can drive them for Pianoteq, any ideas?</p></blockquote></div><p>Yes - I suggest this one: <a href="http://www.jdslabs.com/products/35/objective2-headphone-amplifier/">http://www.jdslabs.com/products/35/obje...amplifier/</a>&nbsp; (it&#039;s analog only, so you&#039;ll need a suitable audio interface)&nbsp; This one has a very good reputation, and is eminently suitable for driving full sized headphones such as your AKG K702s.</p><p>Greg.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[skip]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=353</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-13T10:05:27Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936506#p936506</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936501#p936501"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Excellent choice. You can go way up with the price, but the improvements are less audible.</p><p>The E10k delivers 200 mW into 32 Ohms, which can drive any headphone.</p><p>I bought the E11k recently, it goes even higher with 270 mW, but that is only 1,2 dB louder, so neglectible.</p><p>Happy playing!</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[geert]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=4135</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-12T21:29:12Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936501#p936501</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Pianoteq Sound Quality - built in soundcard vs audio interface?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936497#p936497"/>
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>anks wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;m really impressed with the AKG K702 headphones, even with the FiiO E10k but I really need something that can drive them for Pianoteq, any ideas?</p></blockquote></div><p>I use the HP-4 by PreSonus.&nbsp; Works great.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[OrganoPleno]]></name>
				<uri>https://forum.modartt.com/profile.php?id=2912</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2014-12-12T20:32:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?pid=936497#p936497</id>
		</entry>
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