If the VPC1 is the one without knobs, I'd say forget it.

GRB, with the greatest respect, if you believe the VPC1 should have had a load of knobs, faders, and buttons, you're probably not the target audience for this particular controller.

Kind regards,
James
x

I'd definitely call it more kind of "dreaming" but sure not "whining" or "complaining". As an average PX-150 user and yet not an owner of Pianoteq software I'm by myself on the same side. I could easy imagine my PX-150 have the same size, the same price, even the same buttons, but a built-in Pianoteq engine inside. It does not look for me as a finding life on Mars.

And BTW I don't that much share GRB's opinion about knobs on a VPC1. Yes, there could be some reasons for that, but imagine, you have a row of 8 sliders or knobs, you assign the leftmost one to the Pianoteq volume slider and after a year of use it just go nuts. And It will happen 100% because the spoiled capitalist bastards will use cheap Chinese potentiometers on a 1500 euro device instead of expensive top-class optical death proof  potentiometers (user exchangeable at it's most best) which will rise the price tag huge. So you better stick to your NanoControls or LaunchControls which you can just put on top of VPC1 and exchange one day with much lesser pain.

You do have a point that more knobs mean more potential problems.  I'm not sure I would blame capitalism though.  Does Russia make a good controller?  I know their SU-35 is considered superior to any fighter jet made in America.  I respect your view that knobs are not necessary, and I'm sure that it's true.  By the same token I own a Yamaha KX-88 and that was the king of controllers at one time.  A lack of presets sort of killed it in my opinion.   I just look at a Nord piano, and look at the VP-1 and and would take the Nord.  When I first saw "Pianoman Chuck" demonstrating the VP-1, I thought the concept is completely ridiculous unless it's offered at a very low price.  I think the greatest potential is perhaps a tablet that plugs into the music desk and controls all the functions on a touch screen.  If you want a VP-1, go buy one.  I really don't care.  I'm just saying I wouldn't want one, and for what's it's worth I've been around  MIDI in a big way for a very long time.  My first digital Grand was the Roland MKS-20 rack mounted sound module.  However, I'm no longer interested in big racks of sound modules.  By the way someone complained that Casio's are just entry level keyboards without much merit.  I ask the question: "Why are Joe Sample and Eric Gunnison playing one?"  I know Eric Gunnison used to have the heavy Roland which sounded good, but needed a moving company to transport.  I'm a fan of Casio because it sounds and plays reasonably well and is comparatively light weight.

By the way another complaint of mine about the Yamaha KX-88 is that it's extremely heavy, and I can't say the action is any better than the Casio.  In fact the Casio is probably better as there are no springs.  It works by gravity.  The KX-88 has small leaf springs under each key which act against a heavy lead weight.  The Casio has no lead weights but it does have steel bars.  People like wood keys, but I live in Hawaii and termites eat wood.  They have destroyed many pianos.

I personally like my Yamaha stagepiano. But I also like the sound of PTQ5.
Recently I had a chance to play on someone's VPC-1. Very good keyboard action, much better than my Yamaha.

But playing with your own hands and listening with your own ears should always be rule #1 when making a decision. Especially if it costs you money. Nice and helpful people here, but don't trust the PTQ forum too much :-)

Why did you say "If the VPC1 is the one without knobs, I'd say forget it"? ,  and what relevance to the original poster is your  mention of a jumped up V-Piano?

Ian

I have a VPC1 and previously the V Piano. I liked the V but the action was too light for me and going over to a real acoustic grand I had to warm up to it for a while.

I bought a used VPC1 a bit banged up. I did notice without the sound connected there are a few keys that have some roughness like a very light scraping when pressed that is not noticeable when connected to sound. I will take the top off and look at the action sometime.

With the VPC1 for me there is no adjustment period when playing a grand. I played a Kawai grand over a friend's house and I immediately played it like I was on the VPC1. With the Roland I had to adjust for a while on an real acoustic. VPC1 just feels right to me. The Roland was light, imo.

Phil

And BTW I don't that much share GRB's opinion about knobs on a VPC1. Yes, there could be some reasons for that, but imagine, you have a row of 8 sliders or knobs, you assign the leftmost one to the Pianoteq volume slider and after a year of use it just go nuts. And It will happen 100% because the spoiled capitalist bastards will use cheap Chinese potentiometers on a 1500 euro device instead of expensive top-class optical death proof  potentiometers (user exchangeable at it's most best) which will rise the price tag huge. So you better stick to your NanoControls or LaunchControls which you can just put on top of VPC1 and exchange one day with much lesser pain.

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/...-computer/

I worked for Zenith Electronics who first supplied the crt screen and then built the whole computer in Ireland before Compaq opened their Scottish factory.   It did of course have a keyboard but not a sustain pedal

Significantly the world's largest sewing machine factory making 13,000 machines a week and which had the world's largest electric four faced clock was based in Clydebank, Scotland.  When from 1973 I made one of my many visits there I saw that their machines did have a pedal which was able to alter the speed of the tune

One of the great things about the Modart product is that anyone with a computer and any midi/usb keyboards is able to use it or just demo it.   

With regard his comment about having to lug around a laptop.   I use my laptop for more than hosting Pianoteq.   It has a 12.1" 16:10 (not 16:9) multi-touch screen and I use  MusicReader on my keyboard music stand as a database for portrait mode live playing of any of my hundreds of full piano scores.  I have Airturn Bluetooth footpedals for forward and backward page turning.   

It would not be reasonably feasible to fit a 12.1" screen into a keyboard but I do not complain about that.

Ian

Well you would have to agree that an instrument similar to the Casio PX-150 with Pianoteq-Pro built in would be much better than it is now.  Please don't be a nay sayer and look towards the future.  Yes, right now the all purpose laptop exists, and by the way at a very reasonable price.  What is needed is a great all purpose portable keyboard, again at an affordable price point.

Translation: "I want, I want, I want." You are confusing your personal interest with a general 'need'. And also calling people names and accusing them of being backwards just for not agreeing with you is not really helping your case.

Laptops that did not exist were in the form of sewing machines? I... see.

The irrelevant allusions to history aside, a general trend is and has been for quite some time now one towards general-purpose devices of increasing power. The dimensions of modern notebooks, phones and tablets are dictated largely by their interface (i.e., the screen); apart from that, they are very powerful and extremely small general-pupose computers. This trend will continue, with devices becoming smaller (or more likely: thinner) and even more powerful.

There are however two facts you very conveniently 'forget'. Firstly there is the increasing velocity of obsolescence. A mobile device is considered obsolete nowadays after 12-18 months, a computer maybe after two years, and even in more specialised areas the time to obsolescence is dropping rapidly. And secondly there is the trend towards specialised peripheral hardware. (And what else, pray tell, would a keyboard controller be but a specialised piece of peripheral hardware?) This trend is by the way actually furthered by the first.

So, what would make a lot more sense than your idea of 'a digital piano controller that is a super powerful computer at the same time' is a specialised piano controller as a peripheral unit connected to a powerful computer. And guess what? This. Already. Exists. What will probably happen is that we will see some of the cables disappear in the near future in favour of a wireless connection. But separate devices they will quite probably remain, at least if the velocity of obsolescence remains as high as it is. There is just no market for a highly specialised product like what you describe.

But: if you are so convinced of the inevitability of your idea: by all means, construct it, find funding, go to market with it. But please stop whining about its non-existence, thanks.

BTW right from the Pianoteq website:

MODARTT is open to partnerships for adapting Pianoteq to other devices or applications.

https://www.pianoteq.com/modartt

That's great news Andrei, thanks for the heads up.

https://www.pianoteq.com/modartt

GRB, the Casio instruments are in every sense of the word 'entry level' instruments. They are very usable in many aspects, but there is a reason that instruments twice and thrice as expensive still find their customers. So would you please stop telling us how Pianoteq should become like your Casio PX-150? Thanks.

Apart from that, as others have pointed out: everything you want already exists. Buy a PX-350, which has line-in jacks, and buy a Surface Pro or a Mac, which are able to not only run Pianoteq, but a complete DAW with any software synthesizer you want. Problem solved: maximal flexibility with maximal portability and minimal cabling. The fact that a highly-specialised setup like this is not as cheap as an entry-level digital piano off the rack is something you will just have to deal with.

Well you would have to agree that an instrument similar to the Casio PX-150 with Pianoteq-Pro built in would be much better than it is now.  Please don't be a nay sayer and look towards the future.  Yes, right now the all purpose laptop exists, and by the way at a very reasonable price.  What is needed is a great all purpose portable keyboard, again at an affordable price point.

This all reminds me of the days when desktop computers were hugely massive, and built like tanks.  Laptops which did not exist were in the form of sewing machines.   Well now we have smart phones that are far more functional than the original computers.  I know that what I'm talking about will come to fruition.  It's just a question of when and by who.  To me Modartt is in the driver's seat, because they have without question the best sound.  And guess what,  they didn't do it with sampling.  It was the developed with a vision of the future.

At one time Commodore 64 was on top of the pile, yet they were pushing the VIC-16 about the same time the original IBM open architecture computers came out.  You don't hear about Commodore any more.  Technology is a fast moving business.  You have to be able to adapt to the future.  Keeping things just as they are now is predictably a loosing strategy.

Apart from that, as others have pointed out: everything you want already exists. Buy a PX-350, which has line-in jacks, and buy a Surface Pro or a Mac, which are able to not only run Pianoteq, but a complete DAW with any software synthesizer you want. Problem solved: maximal flexibility with maximal portability and minimal cabling. The fact that a highly-specialised setup like this is not as cheap as an entry-level digital piano off the rack is something you will just have to deal with.

Hi, Really, my only concern is whether or not a better instrument will help me become a better player. Will the differences in the action between the VPC-1 and the ES7 make me a better player in the long run? Maybe, but I doubt it.

I'm have a Casio and find it plays as a piano just fine.  Apparently Joe Sample plays a Casio 350, and Eric Gunnison who is on the DU faculty and plays with the Dizzy Gillespie All-star band. plays some sort of  Casio, I think maybe the synth controller with knobs.  You aren't going to find better jazz pianists than these two guys.   To  me it all boils down to an instrument that's easy to carry and sets up quickly.  Built in speakers are a must.  Extra gear is a total no-no, and I've got to have some knobs that are easy to get to on the front panel for quick adjustments to the sound.  You don't have a "controller" if there is no way to control it.  What I do see in the future is a touch screen tablet that plugs into the music desk slot which has all your music, and which can control the sound banks.  The instrument of the future is still going to need some assignable knobs,  sliders and buttons for what ever functions you want. Nothing sounds better than a Pianoteq.  It just doesn't cut it in the transportability department.  In that sense Modartt is still on Generation I.  Who knows before long it's possible that the entire Pianoteq Pro can be on a USB stick or SD card that plugs into your piano which has every thing you need buit right in, perhaps even with battery back up.  After all, full Linux distributions along with much of the software are on bootable USB sticks.

Yet another idea:  An SSD HD that pops into a top slot on the keyboard which contains 1000's of MIDI files. Right now Modartt is just a great sounding piano, but there is no reason a great sounding synth bank could not be developed too.  Nobody on this forum is talking about it much, but what is essential in a good controller is velocity cross fade and after touch. with sliders that can easily control the sound levels of splits and layers.   If you want to fatten up a piano sound, good analog strings like on the Super JX-10 can provide the right color wash, but they have to be very subtle and can't be a buzz saw with no adjustments as is the case with Casio.  In that sense Casio is a total failure.   Most of their sounds are horrible. and the control over splits and layers is abominable.  I'm talking about the PX-150 here.  I don't know about their top of the line Synth.