...even better, during the calibration the velocity indicator may actually show ideal velocity position for the certain step graphically, but not your actual velocity.

...thought more about it, I'd really be interested in trying it for scientific purposes, though I still don't clearly understand what's wrong with just linear.

...just thought more about it. First I thought that that advanced calibration procedure could actually play a sound from an ideal velocity setting for each step (not the real one) the same way I suggested for the visual feedback. But then I thought about that "ideal" volume linear curve - it could also be pre- calibrated by user with no actual numeric data feedback from the interface - to not let your brains fool you. Say, just by mouse blind dragging arrange 10 notes loudness from ppp to FFF linearly only by hearing. Provide some user adjustable dynamic range. Do it 100 times, get the intermediate result. That will build the pre- keyboard playing perceived volume linear curve. Or we can stay with Pianoteq scientifically modelled linear volume curve. And after that - go to calibration from the keyboard. And, opposite to what I suggested previously, in this case the actual sound feedback could be acceptable. And, if there is a will to go crazy about it, the intermediate calculations should be more or less advanced. I'd suggest to just truncate 10% of the values for a given step removing sequentially all the most extreme values, to get rid of occasionally made wrong entries, and only after that do the intermediate calculation of the remaining values.

...and, btw, maybe, if I'll not be so lazy as usually, I'll develop all that stuff by myself with a Reaktor software (it could be some other visual programming MIDI friendly software such as Max/MSP which I'm not so familiar). Just maybe.

...just to prove to myself that it was just a waste of time and stick to just linear.

Then Andrej: you often like to exaggerate a bit., in your evergoing suspicious mind towards manufacturers. You don,t need to buy the stuff....!
The velocity curve that i made myself, looks for 90% the same as the factory preset in the VPC. so it certainly is NOT a gadget only for selling this device.

Perhaps when you diminish critisizing somewhat, you get happier?? ( I hope).

Actually I'm not so much criticizing rather saying I'd like to understand. BTW, how you developed that yours velocity curve? Teach me please, no sarcasm. When I, say, follow the Pianoteq calibration instructions I get the different results all the time. The sum of them seems to me more or less as a linear graph.

Of course, when you want a Midi master keyboard with all sorts of splits, CC sends, pitchbend, modulation, you use a different unit....
I have them all over here, and my experience is, that a comfortable piano-style touch is far more important for my playing pleasure then all those adjusters at hand.
Although a Korg Kronos X-88 could be satisfatory in both worlds??

Then Andrej: you often like to exaggerate a bit., in your evergoing suspicious mind towards manufacturers. You don,t need to buy the stuff....!
The velocity curve that i made myself, looks for 90% the same as the factory preset in the VPC. so it certainly is NOT a gadget only for selling this device.

Perhaps when you diminish critisizing somewhat, you get happier?? ( I hope).

The "velocity" is indeed measured as the time between  two contacts closing one at 10% keydown or so, and one at 90% keydown or so.
This is speed figure is directly coded into 1--127 in a lineair way.

Greetings.,

Geert

Hi, new user here.

I think the important part is to know if your keyboard transmits all 127 velocity values, or has big jumps. From some other forums I have come to knwo that not all keyboards send the 127, so it's difficult to get full dinamic range with them. In part is important that software as pianoteq has a way of setting velocity curve response to overcome this problem.

Some specific midi controllers allow you to adjust the velocity curve, something not quite common on DP specially the entry level ones,so it is ncie to overcome this limitation in software pianos.

I think a database where people submitted the velocity values they can get out of their keyboard could be very usefull to make pruchasing decissions.

I agree with you totally.  Another issue is exactly how is the velocity measured?  Is it the impact on the sensor or what?  Optically you could measure the speed of travel between two points.  I really have no idea how it is done electronically.

I think the important part is to know if your keyboard transmits all 127 velocity values, or has big jumps. From some other forums I have come to knwo that not all keyboards send the 127, so it's difficult to get full dinamic range with them. In part is important that software as pianoteq has a way of setting velocity curve response to overcome this problem.

Some specific midi controllers allow you to adjust the velocity curve, something not quite common on DP specially the entry level ones,so it is ncie to overcome this limitation in software pianos.

I think a database where people submitted the velocity values they can get out of their keyboard could be very usefull to make pruchasing decissions.

GRB wrote:

Why isn't there one called "golden" or "super funky"?  And they left out "Genuine Chopin"

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

The Casio PX-150 comes stock with the Mussorgsky velocity curve which many consider superior to the Rebikov curve.  You can literally paint portraits with the Mussorgsky, but if you are a  fan of pre-impressionism you choose the Rebikov.

Why isn't there one called "golden" or "super funky"?  And they left out "Genuine Chopin"

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

geert wrote:

More on topic: for me the preset "Pianoteq"curve in my VPC-1 suits me wonderful. My guess is, that people at Kawai listened rather well to some Pianoteq virtual instruments.

Ok, I beleive that I may be wrong, but for me that VPC1 factory curves look like a marketing trick, that they call "approved by". What I think is that they just randomly moved something slightly - it can't seriously spoil the whole thing - and thats it, now they can "sell" it to public as an "exclusive feature". What purpose are they solve? Do they mean Pianoteq is nonlinear, so they corrected it by their "approved" curves? Or their keyboard is not linear, but why different curves for different manufacturers then? I say again, there is a big chance I keep that I'm wrong and just don't understand or know something, but just shared my way of thinking. Reminds me "Super Mega Bass 3D" sticker on a boombox.

...what was the method for getting that VPC1 curves, can anyone guess?

From the Kawai website:   Preset Touch Curves  -  Normal, Ivory, Pianoteq, Galaxy, Alicia's Keys

Yeah, what's the difference between "normal" and "ivory"?  Why isn't there one called "golden" or "super funky"?  And they left out "Genuine Chopin".  Worst of all this particular controller doesn't have any knobs or sliders.  I would never consider it for my needs.  I'm a fan of Nord.

More on topic: for me the preset "Pianoteq"curve in my VPC-1 suits me wonderful. My guess is, that people at Kawai listened rather well to some Pianoteq virtual instruments.

Ok, I beleive that I may be wrong, but for me that VPC1 factory curves look like a marketing trick, that they call "approved by". What I think is that they just randomly moved something slightly - it can't seriously spoil the whole thing - and thats it, now they can "sell" it to public as an "exclusive feature". What purpose are they solve? Do they mean Pianoteq is nonlinear, so they corrected it by their "approved" curves? Or their keyboard is not linear, but why different curves for different manufacturers then? I say again, there is a big chance I keep that I'm wrong and just don't understand or know something, but just shared my way of thinking. Reminds me "Super Mega Bass 3D" sticker on a boombox.

...what was the method for getting that VPC1 curves, can anyone guess?

But not as easy as Art Tatum playing 10ths

Ian

  he was incredible... not just because of the hands though

if I remember well, our Andrej likes keys that do not have much inertia in the form of built-in weights, but it is my experience, that a proper weighted keybed helps me a lot in varying the touch-velocity.
So many people, so many meanings.....

Lol, it's not a matter of love (or like) tbh )) Just play Chopin #1 op. 10 etude and you'll get the idea of what I was talking about )))

geert wrote:

I,m a fan of Bill Evans. But, just lioke Brubeck, they have such big hands........while mine are  way too small.

...

Greetings,

Geert

I fell in love with Evans' music in my teens... I've always envied his hands too, but that's sort of a false problem imo. We small handers find our way to do things (I can play most tenths btw)

But not as easy as Art Tatum playing 10ths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F737M573SYM

and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kACt0FM0Kf8

Ian

I,m a fan of Bill Evans. But, just lioke Brubeck, they have such big hands........while mine are  way too small.

...

Greetings,

Geert

I fell in love with Evans' music in my teens... I've always envied his hands too, but that's sort of a false problem imo. We small handers find our way to do things (I can play most tenths btw)

More on topic: for me the preset "Pianoteq"curve in my VPC-1 suits me wonderful. My guess is, that people at Kawai listened rather well to some Pianoteq virtual instruments.

Of course, the weighting of the keys also plays in this; if I remember well, our Andrej likes keys that do not have much inertia in the form of built-in weights, but it is my experience, that a proper weighted keybed helps me a lot in varying the touch-velocity.
So many people, so many meanings.....

Greetings,

Geert