honjr wrote:

I own PVerb and it's outstanding, but on the other hand my best recording to date was done using 2C Audio Breeze, which is just as good as PVerb.

You are referring to its application to Pianoteq, I presume? IMHO I am always aware of reverb on a sound when I use Breeze, whereas with Phoenixverb there is usually some magic mix ration where the reverb melds with the sound in a beautiful way to enhance the music. This is a comment about mixing music in DAW's, rather than live use of Pianoteq - I tend to stay with Pianoteq's reverbs. But in an acoustically nice room, and with appropriate amplification (ha! easier said then done), it would make sense to switch out the on-board reverb.

Yes PV is very musical, tough to beat. I was a bit shocked to rediscover that my best recording used Breeze, since I always had thought PV was the best I'd heard for piano.   Based on NathanShirley's post I also checked out Valhalla Room and Shimmer - for me, Shimmer seems to add something new to my set of reverbs. I invest in more than one reverb for inspiration and to avert boredom!

I own PVerb and it's outstanding, but on the other hand my best recording to date was done using 2C Audio Breeze, which is just as good as PVerb.

You are referring to its application to Pianoteq, I presume? IMHO I am always aware of reverb on a sound when I use Breeze, whereas with Phoenixverb there is usually some magic mix ration where the reverb melds with the sound in a beautiful way to enhance the music. This is a comment about mixing music in DAW's, rather than live use of Pianoteq - I tend to stay with Pianoteq's reverbs. But in an acoustically nice room, and with appropriate amplification (ha! easier said then done), it would make sense to switch out the on-board reverb.

I was all ready to get PhoenixVerb based on reviews and samples, then during checkout I realized I had to purchase a 3rd party dongle. The dongle isn't cheap, plus, based on my interpretation of the fine print, if you ever change computers you have to pay a significant transfer fee. I couldn't support that.

ValhallaRoom was 2nd on my list based on reviews, but I couldn't find any good traditional acoustic examples. I tested the demo and liked what I heard, though it does take some time to learn the system. They do offer a nice resource for creating traditional halls, like the Boston Symphony Hall:

http://valhalladsp.com/2011/05/25/valha...ert-halls/

I started with the Boston Symphony Hall and adjusted it to taste. You can hear the initial results on my recent video in the 'recordings featuring pianoteq' forum:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4682

You are wise - there is also a kerfuffle on other forums about PhoenixVerb not being eligible for resale. I own PVerb and it's outstanding, but on the other hand my best recording to date was done using 2C Audio Breeze, which is just as good as PVerb. I will also demo ValhallaRoom just to see what I can do with it.

Thanks. Nightwatch for the insight!. Which convo reverb do you use? You mention layers of IR.
So far within this thread I had noticed 3 people including myself like to use Aether with pianoteq.

Yeah. Aether is great with PianoTEQ.

About layering, there are several ways to go depending on what you want to achieve.

One is the same as how'd you'd setup an orchestral mixer signal flow. In the simplest version you could use one convo for ERs, one for coloring and one for late reflections.

Probably the granddaddy of all convo reverbs at the moment is Liqudsonics Reverberate. It's a dual true stereo convo that can modulate between IRs.

Someone I know who knows more about convolution reverb than just about anybody on the planet (he was involved with many of the early convo solutions) tells me that Revererate is a generation ahead of everyone else.

Obviously this may or may not make any difference in how you or anyone else wants to add reverb to PianoTEQ but I thought I'd make mention of it.

Check out a software manual on VSL's website before they pull it later this year. It's called FORTI/SERTI and it gives some interesting ways to stage an instrument, eq and instrument and more. Maybe over the top for some but it's good knowledge.

Otherwise I agree about Aether. Awesome reverb.

ValhallaRoom was 2nd on my list based on reviews, but I couldn't find any good traditional acoustic examples. I tested the demo and liked what I heard, though it does take some time to learn the system. They do offer a nice resource for creating traditional halls, like the Boston Symphony Hall:

http://valhalladsp.com/2011/05/25/valha...ert-halls/

I started with the Boston Symphony Hall and adjusted it to taste. You can hear the initial results on my recent video in the 'recordings featuring pianoteq' forum:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4682

Hi all. I have been away from the forum until I have forgotten that I was the OP.  Haha. How I am using Sonar Platinum as my main DAW, Pianteq is still my go to piano although dependimg on the mood I would use the pianos from Komplete 10U. And my favorite reverb is now Aether. I had demoed almost all the best algo reverb vst under the sun and came to the conclusion that Aether is the best reverb for piano. BTW the creator pf Aether is also a pianist. It's included reverb presets for piano are top notch although I had learned to tweak it a little bit. I am glad that the included reverbs in Sonar are also very good for the job too. I also own N.I. RC48 reverb I like that very much. But Aether is my go to reverb for anything piano.

Agree, the 2C Audio reverbs are excellent. The simplest, and cheapest, is called Breeze and that should be more than adequate for most standard piano music. Sometimes you can get it on sale for pretty cheap.

I like PianoTEQ so much to me it's worth the effort.

1) To get a slightly more realistic soundboard and lid sound I frequent use convolution reverb loaded with the resonance of a real concert grand, combined with an eq based IR and then if needed I'll use a secondary room IR to get the impression of a real piano in a real room.

2) I also think Aether is a good reverb for PianoTEQ. It can do what I described above but has the ability to add some great color in the early reflections, then add a ton of late reflection which makes PianoTEQ a great ambient piano.

3) Sometimes, for practice, I'll try staging, eq'ing and adding various layers of convolution reverb to get PianoTEQ to sound like I'm sitting on the 15th row at a Piano Concerto.
With the right touch using something like MIR or VSS can be a lot of fun but it's harder than to get right than it might seem.

I could name reverbs for days that I've tried PianoTEQ with but at the end of the day don't forget to play with the built in mic emulation. That's a lot of fun right there. Convocation works well for jazz and concert style, while algorithmic is better for simmer, dazzle, pop or for any classic sound from the past 40 years.

I found that Pianoteq's built-in reverb seemed to change (in a bad way) the whole character of the sound, to the extent that I just had to turn it off altogether. I now use an old external hardware reverb - Lexicon MPX 500 - which I like a lot. It has digital i/o with which I connect it to my RME soundcard and I then use the RME mixer application to adjust send/return levels - works a treat.

But I use an external hardware unit simply because I happened to have it lying around. I'd be keen to try - for example - the Lexicon PCM Native reverb plugin but it's a lot of money and I don't know how to integrate something like a VST plugin reverb with Pianoteq, without having to run Pianoteq as a VST instrument in something like a DAW (which I don't really want the hassle of doing). It would be great if the Pianoteq standalone programme functioned as a VST host.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers, Ian.

Yes, Pianoteq Reverb does change the sound because it's based on IRs which are actual recordings of a room. Each comes with its own color and the more reverb you mix, the more room sound and color you are going to hear. If you like the sound of the Lexicon PCM you might want to check PhoenixVerb or R2, the author is Michael Carnes who also wrote the algos for the Lexicon. They should be cheaper than Lexicon.

I found that Pianoteq's built-in reverb seemed to change (in a bad way) the whole character of the sound, to the extent that I just had to turn it off altogether. I now use an old external hardware reverb - Lexicon MPX 500 - which I like a lot. It has digital i/o with which I connect it to my RME soundcard and I then use the RME mixer application to adjust send/return levels - works a treat.

But I use an external hardware unit simply because I happened to have it lying around. I'd be keen to try - for example - the Lexicon PCM Native reverb plugin but it's a lot of money and I don't know how to integrate something like a VST plugin reverb with Pianoteq, without having to run Pianoteq as a VST instrument in something like a DAW (which I don't really want the hassle of doing). It would be great if the Pianoteq standalone programme functioned as a VST host.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers, Ian.

Pianoteq standard/pro have a option to load external impulse responses inside of it. Go grab some free impulse responses (wav files) and load. I use ir-s from http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-i...responses/   and  http://www.samplicity.com/download/ They are high quality and sound beautiful. Also try http://www.avid.com/plugins/space-impul...se-library Good luck.

But I use an external hardware unit simply because I happened to have it lying around. I'd be keen to try - for example - the Lexicon PCM Native reverb plugin but it's a lot of money and I don't know how to integrate something like a VST plugin reverb with Pianoteq, without having to run Pianoteq as a VST instrument in something like a DAW (which I don't really want the hassle of doing). It would be great if the Pianoteq standalone programme functioned as a VST host.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers, Ian.