sigasa wrote:

Indeed you can!

Did you notice if there is any type of felt under the keys? I played a friends acoustic piano recently (it happened to be a Kawai grand) and the keys hit the keybed with a nice thwack and I kind of miss that on the VPC1 so I am wondering if I can get some thwackiness into it.

I Mabry,

I believe the reason that there is so little 'thwack' in the VPC1 is because of the let-off simulation. The arms that are utilized in this are of rubber/silicone makeup. Now that I have disengaged these, there is a wonderful, positive and definite 'thwack' at key bottoming. This is much more pleasing to me than the original VPC1 setup. I still have the silicone/rubber armatures, but as I say, they are out of the way.

Kindest Regards,

Chris

Indeed you can!

Did you notice if there is any type of felt under the keys? I played a friends acoustic piano recently (it happened to be a Kawai grand) and the keys hit the keybed with a nice thwack and I kind of miss that on the VPC1 so I am wondering if I can get some thwackiness into it.

sigasa wrote:

I have 'disabled' the let-off effect by opening up the keyboard and pulling/pushing the let-off arms out of the way.

Hmmmmm...can you push those suckers back into the way again if you want to?

Indeed you can!

Kindest Regards,

Chris

EDIT

EDIT 2 May take some time though!!!

I have 'disabled' the let-off effect by opening up the keyboard and pulling/pushing the let-off arms out of the way.

Hmmmmm...can you push those suckers back into the way again if you want to?

Very interesting Sigasa.  Just out of curiousity,  when/if you have played real pianos, have you ever felt that there was too much let-off, or that there was something not to your liking about the let-off? Do you think you'd prefer real pianos to not have any let-off feel at all?

Greg.

That's a very interesting question Greg. Yes, I played numerous pianos, Steinway, Fazioli, and many others, uprights and grands plus a harpsichord and clavichord...

And, the answer to whether I have felt those real pianos have to much or too little let-off, yes and no. As I understand, some piano technicians try to minimise the feel of the let-off in a real piano, especially if requested by the artist. However, some pianists like a stronger let-off to aid pianissimo playing. It must be said that the real grand pianos I've played have mostly had a more defined let-off feel than that of my VPC1,
the latter feeling much less positive. It's not that I don't like let-off (I must admit, I quite like the let off on the Roland PhaIII), it's just that I felt the VPC1's response could be improved by removing this feature. And my hunch paid off. I feel much more connected to the software ( PianoTeq) and have finally been able to work out a suitable curve using 'midi shape shifter' plugin (more info on that soon). The RM3 Grand II feels much more mechanical now (in a good way) and is even more pleasure to play,

Kindest Regards,

Chris

Greg.

sigasa wrote:

Ok, where do I start?

Well...what the frickamazoola is the let-off, what does it do when engaged, why did it improve your experience, what did you loose by letting the let-off be off?

Let-off (otherwise known as escapement) is the term used to describe the action (and feel) of the point at which the Jack moves out from under the hammer butt in a piano action. This action is especially noticeable when a key is played very softly. Some people like a stronger feel and others, less so. Therefore the piano technician is able to adjust the let-off (escapement) to suit the pianists taste.
Many pianist use this effect to aid them in playing pianissimo passages etc. and this is called 'playing the Jack'.

Now, the VPC1 emulates this effect by the use of a silicone(?) arm which the hammer arm rubs up against at the point in the key depress that the Jack would leave the butt in a real piano action. Some people will like this as it is in the VPC1. However, after having disengaged the let-off simulation arms in the action of the VPC1, I found the touch to be much more positive and tactile. It feels more authentic and much less rubbery.

I posted a contest video recorded tonight where I am playing the modified VPC1.

Kindest Regards,

Chris

So tell what you found, and what you did. Details please.

Plus did you manage to make any observations of the sensor layout? Looks well-hidden.

Ok, where do I start?

Well...what the frickamazoola is the let-off, what does it do when engaged, why did it improve your experience, what did you loose by letting the let-off be off?

Well, today I voided my VPC1 warranty!!! I have 'disabled' the let-off effect by opening up the keyboard and pulling/pushing the let-off arms out of the way. (It helped that I had been trained as a piano technician years ago!). The result of today's work, part of which was working on a suitable velocity curve, is a much more accurate and tactile and responsive feel. I actual fact, the touch feels much more solid and definite, not spongy as was somewhat the case when playing pianissimo. Don't get me wrong, the action felt very, very good with the let-off in place, it just feels better now to me. The reason I disabled the let-off was because it was causing minor irregularities in response. I must reiterate - 'minor irregularities'. However, personally speaking, these were enough for me to desire to improve the response by performing this operation. I am absolutely delighted with the results of my labour, but must strongly advise that one play a RM3 action that does not have let-off installed before even thinking of opening up ones' VPC1 and voiding ones' warranty as I have! And if you even have the time or inclination to try out a 'let-off-less' RM3 and find that you like the feel better, do please, please, please seriously consider asking a KAWAI certified technician to carry out the work, that way, you may be able to retain your warranty!

I shall post an audio demo played with this new setup soon.

Again, the VPC1 is a mighty fine piece of engineering and craftsmanship and it is not my intention to detract from this. I just wanted to share my experience.

Thank you KAWAI for the VPC1,

Kindest Regards,

Chris

I learned one new thing about it: I was told, the "Dynamics knob" somehow changes the velocity curve but there is NO loss in MIDI range. It's always from 0 to 127. And supposedly only Lachnit keyboards/ midicontrolers have that.

It is true that many controllers will not send the full range of MIDI values. This can be true for various reasons. I am not sure what the Kawai VPC1 sends. One interesting thing about the Lachnit (http://www.flkeys.at/TechEng.html) from their website:

"Key travel fine adjustment to 11-12mm, Trigger point fine adjustment about 2/3 of key travel."

They have adjusted the throw of the TP40WOOD keyboard, making it a bit shorter, I think. Again, I have this keyboard and the first thing I noticed is that it's key travel was rather deep. I actually kind of liked that. But what is interesting here is that unlike most keyboards which transmit NOTE-ON messages when the key physical whacks something, the Lachnit now does this before the key hits. This of course simulates a real grand action where the hammer is thrown and strikes the string before the key hits the keybed. I can see how this is a real improvement over the TP40WOOD in its unmodified form. But since we have been talking VPC1, I will point out that it's RM3 Grand II action actually does throw a hammer so it has that going for it. See:

http://www.kawai.de/images/productimages/vpc1_1_465.jpg

But it is all in the feel, right?

To measure VPC1 MIDI range, I assume I can use the readout on the VELOCITY section in PianoTeq?

What was it about the Lachnit MK22 that you liked more than the other keyboards you have played?

Yes, good question.

The Lachtnicht is about 3 times the price of the Kawai VPC1!

I wonder how much of the price goes to the Light Sensor technology that is supposed to measure the speed of the key so accurately (which I assume it does, not trying to question this)? If you get this board then use it with Pianoteq...what good is measuring the speed of the key to great accuracy if you only have 16 or so levels of velocity to work with like in sampled pianos?

I also tried a few other keyboards, the Kawai VPC1, like many suggested, and it's nice enough but in my opinion it doesn't hold up well in comparison to the Lachnit MK22, which is a class of its own and well worth its price.

What was it about the Lachnit MK22 that you liked more than the other keyboards you have played?